Recently I came across this reader submitted content in the Savage Pacer which talks about one man’s interpretation of life South of the River. An interesting read and one which may bring some head nods and overall disagreement.
From the article:
My first contact with Minnesota was over 30 years ago when I came to Minneapolis to interview with a large retail corporation. I recall walking down Nicollet Mall trying to find the IDS building. It was late November and I noticed something unusual as I passed my fellow pedestrians. Why, they actually looked me in the eye.
This was unlike anything I had ever experienced. “Out East” you walk with your head down or stare at an object in the distance — anything but actually looking at other people.
[...]
Years passed. And as I battled the traffic from Edina or Bloomington to downtown Minneapolis, there were no longer many waves or nods from my fellow commuters. They seemed to be replaced by a dirty look or a raised middle finger. What happened? It seemed that the Minnesota I first knew was turning into … OH NO! New York City.
[...]
Fast-forward another few years. The kids have grown and moved out of the house (Thank God). Time to downsize, but where to? My wife suggests Savage.
[...]
Then a funny thing happened. The Minnesota that I knew so many years ago suddenly reappeared. I noticed that the people waved as they drove by. Neighbors stopped and visited during my walks with our three dogs. People helped each other during giant snowstorms and even nodded you through a four-way-stop intersection.
Personally I came from out East and perhaps the 30 year time difference from when this individual lived there and I lived in the area made a world of difference. People would wave, nod, and *gasp* even say hello to complete strangers–right there in Times Square! Any area I traveled to up and down the East Coast and even as far as Ohio would bring me a similar experience…and then I moved to Burnsville. Yes, the same Burnsville that sits adjacent to this man’s beloved Savage. The same one where I felt alienated, never once saw someone wave, and most definitely didn’t have anyone look me in the eye, even if you attempted to goad them into doing it by saying hello first.
I continue to live South of the River and still don’t see what this man sees. No one looks at you, few people even come out of their houses especially during the winter, and those who do are so busy keeping their eyes averted I’m surprised they don’t walk into the numerous decorative street lamps which adorn our colored concrete covered sidewalks which no one uses.
What am I missing?
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March 12th, 2013 at 7:20 am
I moved here from California. Now, I’m not the most greagarious guy out there, but in California we lived in our home for about three years. In that time we never met one of our neighbors. Ever. The family across the street had a son who looked about the same age as our son, never met them.
Next door.. couldn’t even pick them out of a crowd.
When we moved here it really was a different world. When we moved in neighbors came by with cookies and plants. With in a year were more connected with all of the folks around us than we had ever been in California. I beleive the low turn over rate in street, two houses have changed hands in 18 years is at least in part, because everyone really likes their neighbors and wouldn’t want to have to reconnect somewhere else.
I also notice that the many civic orgnaizations we participate in that people here seem very friendly. We have a really outstanding circle of friends all of whom are from Scounts or Masons or hockey or what have you. We might have developed that in California had we stayed as kids seems to bring that along… but by and large I have to agree with this guy assessment, at least as compared to California.
March 12th, 2013 at 8:08 am
We moved here 10 years ago from the DC area. We knew all our neighbors there to talk to when we saw them in the yards or on the street but weren’t really friends. However we found it very easy to make friends around DC at work or in activities we joined.
I was kind of shocked when we moved to Minnesota at the rudeness of drivers, mean gestures and shouting as I learned to adapt to the Minnesota special rules of driving. People here were friendly otherwise but did not really seem to want to be friends. I think this may be because many of them had friends they’d had since kindergarden and all their friend slots were filled. After 10 years we do have many good friends but it’s not been easy.
Our neighborhood, however, is VERY friendly. When we first moved here we were invited to join the group of neighbors who brought lawn chairs to one driveway or another or to a backyard fire pit to chat and drink beer. We were invited to parties and got to know many of our neighbors. Over the years some have moved and kids have gone off to school but we still know almost all our neighbors. We have a path near our house and it’s used by many for walking or running and we’ve met lots of people walking our dog. But of course, as you may have guessed, we live over here in friendly Savage.
March 12th, 2013 at 8:47 am
I’m Sank’s opposite-day doppleganger. I grew up here, moved to CA for quite a while and then moved back home to MN. I found exactly the opposite, that people in CA were more friendly and people here in MN are much more reserved, almost antisocial.
I call it Minnesorta Nice.
March 12th, 2013 at 9:09 am
Oh thank God, I thought I was the only one who felt like you did, Bill. And I still miss Worcester horribly, and the relative openness of the people. Of course these are generalizations, and I’ve met some great people out here, including my husband, but I definitely feel that reservation and hesitancy when it comes to people meeting and greeting. The thing I run into most is that when I say that something from out east would be great to have here, I get a look of confusion as though I’ve suggested retilting the axis of the earth. Why would I want X? What’s here is good enough. That drives me insane. I’m not suggesting taking what’s here away. I’m saying that adding something else would be good. It’s frustrating beyond belief.
March 12th, 2013 at 9:46 am
Some other observations:
I would suggest that people here, speficically natives are more “clannish” than I’ve observed elsewhere. Typically they are connected to extended families and have lots of activities with their families. Makes them less inclined to take on new friends.. 2/3 of our friends here are transplants.
I’m a native Californian which when I was growing up was bit rare. Most people moved there from somewhere else and didn’t have the strong family connections. Which you’d think would make them more open to meeting new people, apparently not. Then again I don’t really know because I didn’t meet anyone when we were married and living in our home.
The other observation that MRs S makes is around church attendance. Seems that way more people here attend religious services than did back home. Especially people our age and younger.
When we moved here check writing was another big difference. Here you could and I waited in line behind people doing it, write a check for $1.75 for a McDonalds burger and diet coke. We were about 10 years behind the west coast where no one has accepted a check since 1985.
March 12th, 2013 at 10:37 am
Clannish is a very fitting word. I find this too, almost as if I’m trying to infiltrate a high school clique. Another reason could be our climate. From about October-April our neighborhood hibernates and socializing ( me included) is a wave from the car, or a quick HI! from beneath a mammoth coat.
Though I didn’t miss the value system we encountered out in CA, I do miss the weather. A lot.
But I digress.
March 12th, 2013 at 11:40 am
I’m from the Hudson Valley, born and raised. Spent my weekends at Dad’s house in Yonkers. I always found New Yorkers to be warm and friendly. I’ve never understood the stereotype of the brooding New Yorker, perhaps because I’m not from NYC itself. Although, I have cousins who live in NYC, and when I visit them, I don’t see a whole lot of rudeness in their area. People are busy and perhaps less likely to feign interest. But, if you ask a stranger for help or directions, people seem happy to assist. I’ve even had people say, “Just follow me.”
I also lived in the bay area and in San Diego in my early 20′s. I can’t say I understand ks’s comments. I was immediately accepted in California and always found the people to be friendly and genuinely kind. All of my friends in the bay area were native Californians as well.
Now, Minnesota is very, very different. People here are polite, but reserved. I’d go as far as to say suspicious of outsiders. Like the saying goes, a Minnesotan will give you directions to anywhere you want to go, except their house. I’ve been here since November, 1998 and I only have one friend who is a native Minnesotan. That friend moved to the Cities from another part of the state, so she was more open to outsiders since she’s not surrounded by the people she went to kindergarten with. All of my other friends are from other states.
I’d have to agree with the Minnesorta nice comment.
March 12th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
I always find these kinds of discussions humorous. As if someone is going to have the same experience across all 750,000 people in thousands of neighborhoods across a gigantic area.
It’s partly the luck of the draw and it’s partly “you get what you give”. I don’t find people generally different from one place to another. Yeah, I imagine if you find yourself living on the fringes of Uptown, it’s going to be a different social, economic, family makeup than the shores of Lake Minnetonka or even rural Dakota County where people tend to want their space and to be left alone. But when it comes right down to it, I don’t think that makes any universal difference in the humanity of the people.
I grew up in the suburbs of DC, in a neighborhood dominated by military, embassy, and government workers that were highly transient. Most homes turned over every two years like clockwork. A handful of us managed to stay there for 10 years. I also had family in Queens, NY and nearby New Jersey. I spent time in Philly when my Dad had a tour there. I have family in Winnipeg and rural Saskatchewan. With very few exceptions, no matter where I’ve been, I haven’t felt a strong fundamental difference in people.
March 12th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
I also lived in the bay area and in San Diego in my early 20′s. I can’t say I understand ks’s comments. I was immediately accepted in California and always found the people to be friendly and genuinely kind. All of my friends in the bay area were native Californians as well.
——————-
Sorry you misread, I said our experience (Bay area too) was that the people in CA were more friendly and people here in MN are much more reserved, almost antisocial.
Just wanted to clarify. :)
March 12th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
My apologies,ks. It was Sank’s commentary on Californians that confused me, not yours.
March 13th, 2013 at 8:08 am
I agree with MSPD that it’s pretty much luck of the draw. I think of myself as an outgoing friendly person. When I moved to Eagan in 2006 I found my neighbors to be overly friendly. Partly the reasoning is I was a single 29 year old male moving into a cul-de-sac of 60+ aged women. They are the sweetest ladies and would bake for me, take in my mail, water my lawn if I was gone for a few days, water my flowers, etc.
Last year I moved to Rosemount into a very family friendly neighborhood. I have been here almost one year, and 2 neighbors have stopped by to say hello and to introduce themselves. One is right next to us, so we see them in the backyard. The other stopped one evening when I was out picking up sticks and gave me a warm welcome. I wave and think I am pretty approachable. I don’t have to be friends with my neighbors but it’s nice to know the names of the people who share a space. We have had a couple new families move into homes over the winter…making note now when it thaws to stop over when a welcome basket. Least they won’t be able to say I didnt’ try..?
March 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
I’ll be the first to speak from inside the clan… Born in AV went as far as Mankato for school and after moving back to AV have recently moved to the land of the lost (area near Dodd, 170th and Pilot Knob). I’ve got to say that I’ve never intentionally pulled a “Barriero” and used the ‘one of us’ frame of mind to reach out or whatever. My newest neighborhood feels the most like a bedroom community then where we’ve ever lived but we moved in Nov. Those we’ve met have been great, and no one seems to shy from a wave as I toil with the sheet of ice on my driveway.
I do come from a family where I have 30+ cousins on one side so yeah, finding stuff to do outside of family and kids is tough. We’ve always made it clear with our neighbors that if there are a lot of cars over and the front door is open, stop by… there is a townie bar feel to bridging that gap though.
March 13th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
As a native MN I think clannish is a very good word; it’s not that people are deliberately excluding you, it’s just that they don’t feel compelled to include you. When I was 14 years old I moved from Cottage Grove to the Iron Range. At my 20th high school reunion a good portion of the program was devoted to which of the two elementary schools you had attended! Sheesh.
March 14th, 2013 at 12:11 am
Very clannish. Hubby and I have had a long-running joke about living in Minnesota. If a stranger strikes up a conversation with you, you ask them where they’re from.
March 14th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
What MSPD said.
Except I think it depends on your state in life and where you are. We moved to Burnsville in 1987 and had young kids, the neighborhood was filled with mostly other families with young kids … so everyone knew everyone… no fences, school and youth sports and even church brought you into community.
Today my neighborhood has about 10 homes with the original residents, all are either in their 50′s or older with kids gone. The rest of the homes have new childless people or families with some young kids. Some home school, others you see occasionally but since you have no common reference the direct links to connect are no longer there, and that uneveness makes the neighborhood maybe less ….mmm… “friendly”?
I am inclined to follow MSPD again, i dont see much difference where I have lived and travelled. Although I will say the least friendly place I have ever been was Rock Springs Wyoming.
March 14th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
I’ll bite. What happened in Wyoming?
March 14th, 2013 at 4:41 pm
What happens in Wyoming stays in Wyoming, ks.
March 14th, 2013 at 5:42 pm
Got it.