From the Savage Pacer’s August 27th Police Report:
OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE
On Aug. 15, police were called to Alan’s Towing on 125th Street because the lot attendant believed an 84-year-old New Brighton woman who was trying to pick up her car didn’t have a valid license. Police discovered she did not have a valid license and actually had a warrant for driving after cancellation. The woman became belligerent and walked away when the officer tried to arrest her. The officer grabbed her left arm to put handcuffs on her and she twisted away, and when the officer did get a handcuff on her, she slipped her hand out of it. A second officer arrived on the scene with smaller handcuffs and the woman was arrested and charged with obstructing the legal process.
Aside from an 84 year old being able to wiggle out of handcuffs, the most interesting part of this story isn’t the fact that this woman has a history of run ins with the law, especially when it comes to her insisting that she continue to drive (and not use her seat belt while she’s at it), but that they are attempting to commit her to a mental care facility in what appears to be a response to her actions above based on the time frame alone.
Based on the information provided in the police report blurb, do you believe that she should be committed for her actions? Do you think that an 84 year old deserves jail time instead? Do you perhaps believe that those who are getting up there in age should not be permitted to drive on principal? Whatever you have to say about this one go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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August 30th, 2011 at 7:59 am
As we age, we slowly lose a number of our abilities and reflexes that could impair our driving safety, including eyesight, response time, hearing, etc. Some of us age more slowly than others, just as some of us mature more slowly than others when we are coming into our teens. The main point of having a valid license is safety for everyone on the roads, regardless of age. At some age, perhaps it’s 70 or 75, people should be re-tested on a driving course to determine whether they are still capable of driving in a safe manner. If one of our children dies because an octogenarian is going the wrong way down the freeway, it is no different than if one of our children dies as a result of a drunk driver, or if one of children dies because someone could not read an English traffic sign. People die when there are unsafe drivers on the road. It’s about safety. Regardless of age, resisting arrest and driving without a license are illegal. The article did not say why this person’s license had been cancelled. I’m not aware of any statute that automatically cancels a drivers license just due to age. Elderly people need to respect the laws like everyone else. As to the advisability of putting her in jail, it also doesn’t say how long she was there. Was it just in a holding cell until someone could pick her up? Perhaps her car should be disabled or sold, or her keys taken away by the courts. IF she has been found to be a hazardous driver, she should be kept from driving.
August 30th, 2011 at 9:20 am
JS pretty well nailed it. A few states require added testing at about age 70, usually a vision test. If my memory serves me, Illinois has the most restrictive for older folks. Interestingly Arizona & Florida are fairly lenient for older drivers. Minnesota has little, if any, added testing for old folks. By 2030, ~25% of the driving public will be over 65. Shall we get government out of our lives?
In this case, added testing; cognitive impairment, vision, and a live driving test may be in order. I don’t know if any MN laws allow or forbid that.
August 30th, 2011 at 9:23 am
C&V, they test your vision at every renew in Minnesota.
August 30th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Earlier this summer, my child was involved in a traffic accident that was significant enough to have made the news. If you were just to read the blurb about it, here is what you would have probably noted.
-Elderly driver was killed
-Driver of the other vehicle was a juvenile
-Seat belts were worn by all, including the juvenile passenger in the other vehicle
-Alcohol and drugs were not thought to be a factor
You would have maybe seen this article and moved on towards the next article. You may or may not have assumed that a child driver probably made a mistake of experience that contributed to this one, or maybe that an 85 year old person may also have contributed, not really sure.
What you would not have known is that eventually the insurance companies and the police placed 100% of the fault on the person that did not survive this horrible accident. I prefer to stray from specifics, but the incident was captured on video camera which helped greatly in the investigation.
Sandy, remember when you made fun of me for having one of those video cameras in my car?
Among the awful things our family went through in this ordeal, I needed to pick up the phone to call a member of this person’s family to express our condolences for the loss of their family member. As tragic as this situation could have been for our family (two kids would have died if they didn’t put on seat belts), it was the worst outcome in the world for the other family.
I will never know if age was a factor in this incident, but having reviewed the video a number of times, I find it difficult to think it was not. Without being specific, this driver made a decision that nobody would make (and we are faced with this same decision multiple times every day as drivers) and it cost their life and it cost the chance for children and grandchildren of this person to lose that person earlier than they should have.
I am 100% in favor of making sure that older people get approved for driving after a certain age. Not sure of the right age, but over 80 is a given for me. I will be happy to hang up the keys if I am lucky to get that old, especially now.
August 30th, 2011 at 9:52 am
lefty, sorry to read that.
my dad was a professional driver all his life, greyhound, mci motor coaches. he was tested every year for renewal of his chauffeurs license. eventually he failed, his eyes were starting to go. macular degeneration. i guess your peripheral vision starts to fade. he kept driving into his mid 80′s :( judgement and reaction time off kilter. the sibs were trying to get his license revoked, but he got so bad we got the keys and drove him around. i ‘think’ after he got lost a few times ‘maybe’ he realized what was going on. we don’t know for sure.
bb
August 30th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Yes, Bill, I know they do. But some states add vision test criteria at certain ages.
August 30th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Minnesota needs to set much higher requirements for licensing drivers. Once you are over the retirement age you should be required to pass a vision and driving test every other year. Not just when your license needs to be renewed.
As far as should this woman be committed based on this one incident? Well no. But looking at the report there seems to be some indication this woman is supposed to be taking medication, may not be doing so, and so they will commit her to force her to take her medication.
August 30th, 2011 at 11:04 am
When my dad turned 88 up in a small town we had to essentially lie to him that he had to take a test to get his license renewed. although it wasnt true we essentially got him to stop driving for his and the community’s sake. it was hard for him for a few days, but he pretty much took it in stride.
August 30th, 2011 at 11:14 am
My heart goes out to the families who deal with these issues of aging every day. Prolonging humanity’s lifespan has opened a Pandora’s box, hasn’t it, of both joy and sorrow.
I really don’t believe that aging mellows people; if anything, it strips away everything but the essence of what the person really is. But when the thought process starts to go, well, anything can happen.
August 30th, 2011 at 11:21 am
I think committing her would be a little more humane than jail. She obviously could care less about the law and therefore should not be exposed to the public, especially behind a steering wheel. She lost her PRIVILEGE to drive by driving without a license. She needs help more than punishment at 84. Minnesota has far too many people on our roads that shoud not be there. Does anyone else see all the teenage girls that never stop at stop signs or red lights?
August 30th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Yes Marty, all the time, just as often as I see the teenage boys that do the same thing.
August 30th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
She appears to meet the standard of being “a danger to herself or others.”
August 30th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Lefty, I am sorry your family went through that.
Mikeh, while I think I understand where you are coming from, are you sure that we should “force” people to take “medication”? As a country we are WAY too over-medicated anyway, and I certainly do not want to be medicated against my will.
Marty, my life was permanently changed about ten years ago when a young MAN (nineteen) decided not to stop at a 4-way stop.
August 31st, 2011 at 10:28 am
Thanks Sandy. Sorry to hear you have gone through something no good as well.
I know I poked you a little about that video cam.
As it turned out, it was a huge tool in the recovery process for our young driver. Even though she “knew” that there was nothing she could have done to prevent it, seeing evidence on tape really help remove any possibility of guilt that may otherwise have lingered.
August 31st, 2011 at 9:47 pm
I’m thinking the woman may have had some sort of dementia, thus the commitment. My grandmother had dementia that turned her into a totally different person. She went from a woman who would never swear and laughed everything off to a woman who would scream horrible things at the nursing staff to the point she was almost kicked out of the nursing home. I’m willing to bet that this lady is suffering the same fate. It doesn’t say in the article, but she was probably put on an involuntary 72 hour hold meant to assess her mental stability and will eventually end up in a nursing home. That’s what we had to do with grandma.
September 1st, 2011 at 6:01 pm
There are some people in our society that are perfectly able to interact with society in a positive way as long as they take their doctor prescribed medication. Off their medication they are often a danger to themselves and others, and as such should be held in confinement until which time they expire, or decide to stay on their meds.
September 1st, 2011 at 9:43 pm
There are methods to forcing people to take their meds, it’s a long and arduous task of demonstrating that a person is a danger to themselves and others. Should we make it easier for the government to force people to take their medication…well, it’s a slippery slope, IMO. Many people with difficult mental health issues, such as schizophrenia, dislike their medication because it makes them foggy or sick, or they take it for a while and feel that they’re cured. Personally, I don’t think we should make it easier to commit people to a particular action or restrict their personal freedom if it’s not necessarily harming others. It’s often sad to see an adult struggle with mental health issues, but I think we need more supportive methods rather than punitive.