Last week’s poll asked about your thoughts on flying a Confederate flag. A fairly popular poll for both respondents and comments, it was surprising to see that most people replied that they simply don’t care if someone flies it. Even so, the original reason for the poll was that a West St. Paul City Council member was flying a Confederate flag at his home and people were upset. Following attention gained by the linked article in the Pioneer Press, the councilmember took the flag down even though he didn’t think it was the right thing to do.
This week’s poll comes after a friend was “cut off” at a bar for “drinking too much” and being estimated at having a BAC of .25. A few of us have been meeting up at various South Metro bars for the last few years to play video golf and have a few beers and eat food. We generally prefer Carbone’s in Lakeville because they have two Golden Tee machines and decent food. However after they decided to stop serving one of those in our group, even though we had a D.D. and he was actually sober enough to continue to shoot incredibly well in golf, we will likely move on to another bar instead. We’ve had many discussions about bars taking more responsibility in this area but at which point should a bar do it and to whom should they do it to?
Have you ever been cut off at a bar for drinking too much? Have you ever seen anyone else cut off even though they weren’t really intoxicated? Do you think this is the right thing for bars to do or do you think they should let anyone drink as much as they want as long as they have a D.D.? Why do you think Carbone’s in Lakeville started cutting people off after 3-4 beers? Whatever you have to say about this one vote on the sidebar and then comment on below. After you do both of those things feel free to check out our expired polls in the archive or read through the previous posts about polls here.
Related posts:
Dakota Complaints Map
Dakota Inmate Dashboard
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February 19th, 2012 at 7:36 am
It sounds like either they are becoming more paranoid because their dram shop insurance premiums went way up or maybe the server was a little over cautious (new on the job?).
Either way regardless of whether or not you have a DD MN state law is fairly clear that a establishment is not to serve an “obviously intoxicated” person. Remember the case of some 21 year old dying because a Dinkytown bar let them down 21 shots in a short amount of time a few years back?
I’d say if you have been going there for some time without incident prior to this I would just chalk it up to someone was having a bad night and be done with it.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:15 am
Years ago we, a group of four, got cut off in a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. My husband and a friend of his had gone out golfing in the morning and the other wife and I met up with the two of them mid-afternoon for a late lunch and beers. It was at a place on Grand in St. Paul that used to brew their own beer and is now closed.
None of us had had too much, the place was full and we weren’t being any louder than any of the other tables. But apparently for some reason our server just stopped bringing us the drinks we were ordering. You can bet we never went back there and that story was told many tims over, which I hope cost them business. I’ll decide when I’m done drinking.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:18 am
Come on Bill, you were all drunk as fscking skunks except the DD.. get with the times.. Establishments reserve the right not to serve obviously intoxicated people. Oh wait.. Back to my point..
OK. – Yeah.. If they knew your group, then it was a bit out of line. New joint, new turf and someone in the party getting out of hand, I would see that as acceptable for their own liability, and the safety of the other patrons in the bar. – Who knows the next new guy to walk into a bar might get horridly violent when after a few beers.
Don’t think that’s the case here.. I call it a bad night, or a subtle suggestion for you guys to find a new bar. In the end, I’d let someone drink as long as they’re paying the tab and not being a belligerent a-hole, and have a safe way home. If someone wants to shotgun a 12pk of Natty Ice, that’s their decision, and as long as they don’t make a mess of my bar, let them have their fun.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:44 am
When we change the laws that hold the establishment responsible for drunk driving accidents, then we can be irritated that this happens to us. I have seen this from many sides of the fence. 3 friends killed by drunk drivers, I used to be a bartender, I have a bar manager friend who did cut someone off then went out and killed someone drunk driving, and I have someone close to me that is an alcoholic that has multiple DUIs (who doesn’t?). I have really mixed emotions. How can we expect a bartender and/or server to know when someone had too much to drink? But then when someone is so obviously overserved, such as the comment in post number 1 above, we want to blame the bar with good reason. It’s a horrible predicament to be in. I would never, EVER own a place that served liquor because of this. You can’t win either way. The law will take your place away if you over serve, and your customers will try to take your place away by spreading the fact that they got cut off and keep people from going there. They can’t win, nobody’s right and nobody’s wrong, but had it happened to me, I would have had a soda and enjoyed the rest of my night with my friends.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:18 am
As a bar tender (well I use to do it) I have to say that it’s an issue that the bar, waitress and bartender have to deal with, when to say its enough, you as the patrons are out having a good time and have a DD, that’s great. E cause every bar wants to see you come back safe, but even with a DD we have to make calls to cut off people, why well it’s called legal respectability, see you and you part are drinking and having a great time, five, six, ten drinks and he DD now has his hand full, some how he gets the party of seven back in the van and head for home, Jeff is dropped off first and then Sue, bill, Jean, Todd, Becky and Angie, but Jeff the first dropped off want to drink more and decides to go over to Sue’s for a few more, he hops in the car and takes off. Jeff is 5 times the legal limit and Jeff crashed in Granny Johnson who was playing cards late with friends and had nothing to drink, Granny had her 12 year old Granddaughter with her and when Jeff crashed into them, both were killed. Now Jeff is arrested for DUI, but the investigation goes on and they fine out we’re they we’re drinking and who was working, under state law, they can now charge the bartender for serving someone that was clearly intoxicated for manslaughter, or any number of other charges, that does not even mention that they can face civil action as well and be sued by Jeff, Grandpa, the child’s parents, all can happen just because you wanted to get stupidly shitfaced with a drug that kills more every year and you do not want to drink responsibly, so damn right they have a right to cut you off! Now mind you, I am all for having a good time, if you want to drink heavy and not get cutoff? Do it at home! Because the rest of us out here do not want to be blamed for your potential stupid decisions.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:22 am
.25? I’m hoping that’s not right. That would be pretty messed up, and I would agree with the bar cutting him off.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:48 am
Who estimated the BAC? How? There is no legal limit of BAC for a person who is not driving.
But I don’t blame the bar, the law holds them responsible. Until that goes away, they’re covering their butts, and I can’t fault that.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Dm, there’s an app for that. Actually several for the iPhone.
This information is also readily available by googling blood alcohol chart or blood alcohol calculator. You don’t have to draw blood to get an estimate.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
I am curious about the accuracy of a BAC meter as well. I get that you can enter your body weight, the amount of time and how many drinks you have had, but there are so many variables.
It used to be that one shot of booze, 4 oz. of wine and one 12 oz. beer were considered equal. With all of the rage of beer adding alcohol of late (even fucking Bud Light) the tables have turned a bit. At a bar, with 22 or 25 oz taps pouring IPAs at 9% it makes one of those large beers the same as drinking 5 or 6 glasses of wine. I think people are getting drunker than they think they are these days, with no opinions about what Bill’s friend was doing, just a general comment.
As for the bartenders. They have a tough job given the above comments. Damned if you do…
Not knowing anything else, the bartender in your case either did the right thing or made a mistake trying to be safe. I don’t think you should take your business elsewhere for that reason alone.
February 19th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Isn’t illegal to serve an obviously intoxicated person? The problem with the law (that I believe exists, but I’m not 100% on) is that it isn’t enforced at all. So the bar can cut someone off saying the law exists, but it is never enforced, so we mostly think they shouldn’t do it. That’s in general the problem with laws that aren’t enforced, they are then used to discriminate against people.
February 19th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Just a heads up about Carbone’s in Lakeville. They are featured in a Pioneer Press article talking about unfair targeting by the local police for driving infractions by patrons . Apparently, the police are waiting outside nearby for patrons to leave. So I can imagine they are probably being a little over cautious these days. I know I would be if I was bartending. I do not work at Carbone’s. Also, I am not a patron.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
I’m all for bars cutting people off/erring on the side of caution. I’ve pretty much said my piece here about alcohol, excess, etc.
That said….for the interested parties, I was a part of this group at Carbone’s. The person that was cut off wasn’t visibly drunk, wasn’t acting obnoxious or loud, wasn’t slurring speech, stumbling, or really doing anything that stood out. We were all within eyesight of the bar, it wasn’t crowded, the servers were circulating constantly including bringing us stuff (two of them were sitting with adjacent tables…friends of theirs) and so on.
To top if off, there were four of us…one was the designated driver and I only had a tumbler-sized Surly Smoke over the course of about 3.5 hours. All in all, I was really surprised.
My best guess at the time was that Carbone’s must have had an extraordinary reason for this that we don’t know about. They have to be going to an extreme for a reason — maybe they have had close calls, are on some sort of warning, are trying to proactively avoid being the “town trouble spot” or something. (This is speculation….it could be they are just uber-conscientious.)
With all of the nonsense that goes on with alcohol in bars, this was almost surreal.
And, FWIW, I’ve never been tossed from a bar or cut off. Shock, I know. The closest was being cut off/kicked out of Old Country Buffet in college.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Anyone who can go on to shoot a -11 while I shoot a +91 is sober enough to continue to receive beer.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
With laws on the books that can result in charges when serving an intoxicated person, I can’t fault the bartender/bar at all. Does every bar do it this way? No. Guessing there was an incident at some point in their past that caused such a reaction. The cost and liability issues associated with this are enough to keep me away and out of the industry!
February 19th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
It’s just odd that HE was the one singled out. There were TONS of other people in that bar drinking far more than he was. Why him and not them?
February 19th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Why I am I posting this? Probably a bad idea on my part, but bars and the law are something I do happen to know a thing or 2 about. Lord knows I have spent tons of time in the former and went to college for the later. The liability issues for the bar and their employees, which are serious, have pretty much been covered, so I don’t have much to add there.
As for Carbone’s in Lakeville, that is a place I spend a lot of time at. Granted I only really started to hang out there about 4 months ago since my neighbor and some friends of mine go there a lot and I decided to join them. I had a bad experience there many years ago and boycotted them because of it. I guess I finally moved on and decided to give them another chance and things are much better now. I am usually there for happy hour a couple of times a week now. I don’t know many servers, but I do know the bartenders. At least the ones who work when I am there. I have never seen any of them cut anyone off before, even some regulars who have been obviously hammered. But, I have noticed that things change there when the night shift comes on, which is at 5:00 pm. The bartenders switch over between 5:00 and 6:00 pm. All of a sudden ID’s get checked more closely. They get flipped over and checked for “b cards’ and if someone has one they will refuse to serve them, even though they were served earlier by other employees. The bartenders and servers that come in for the night shift pay a lot closer attention attention to things because they are inheriting what the lunch/happy hour shift left them and really don’t know how much anyone has had to drink. Personally, I find it ironic that a person with a b card can go in there and get served over lunch/happy hour and then get shut down when the new crew comes on. I don’t know, but I have a feeling that management there has told their employees to really crack down on stuff in the evening hours. They let things go in the afternoon that they won’t in the evening when things start hopping.
As for Bills situation. I don’t know what time this happened, but wouldn’t be surprised if it did in the later afternoon/early evening. I don’t know how intoxicated his friend was. My guess is that if he was acting fine and not being loud and obnoxious he either did something that caused other customers to complain about him or he pissed off their server or bar tender in some way. Something out of the ordinary had to have happened for him to get cut off. He might have seemed fine to his friends drinking with him, but maybe not so much to a sober patron or employee.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:39 pm
No.
You missed the part where I said there were four of us and two were sober, including myself.
Nothing “out of the ordinary” happened. Nobody complained about him. He didn’t piss off the bartender. He was just standing there playing Golden Tee. He wasn’t making any noise or even talking to anyone besides us.
I was there, sober, and it was clearly an internal issue with the bar/bartender, not anything about the patron.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Oh, and another note. As we were walking out of the bar, I happened to be the last person going out. I glanced over and the bartender said “thanks for coming in…have a great night” to me (not sarcastically). She clearly wasn’t bothered by us.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Maybe they saw Bill’s comments in the story about the dude who got dragged down the street for trying to stop his buddy from D.W.I. (you know, the ones where he insisted, adamantly, that bartenders who serve the intoxicated should be charged). If you want it that way, then respect their decision, no matter how unreasonable or out of line it may seem to be to you. Perhaps it was a case of confused identity. Someone complained about someone being too drunk and obnoxious, and the bartender connected the complaint with the wrong patron. Who knows.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
We respected their decision. We asked about it, the bartender in question explained her reasoning to me and my friend decided he wanted to leave to continue to enjoy beer elsewhere in town. Because that friend respects my refusal to enjoy beer at Panino Brothers, I respected his desire to walk out and not return in the future. I also joined him in tipping $0 for poor service.
Again. I have no problems with people getting cut off, in fact I support it. I just thought that, of all nights to do this, they did it to the wrong person on the wrong evening. They really should have cut him off two Sundays ago instead when he was at 7+ beers and not 4.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
I would be surprised if it was an issue with the bartender. If this happened yesterday afternoon then I have a pretty good idea of who the bartender was, and she wouldn’t go out of her way to look for problems where they don’t exist Most of the bartenders there really only pay attention to the people at the bar as that is where the Lions share of their tips come from. If, as you say, you’re friend wasn’t doing anything to draw attention to himself she wouldn’t care what you guys were doing. My guess is that if another patron didn’t complain it was probably an issue with a server. Maybe not your server, but another one. I have hung out there enough to know that bartenders there are pretty easy going, but there are a couple of servers there that I can’t say the same for.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Ironically Bill, I was at Panino Brothers on Saturday with my wife for lunch. We were both quite pleased with the food, but the service was another story. We sat at the bar and the bartender was great, but the server there was bitching, moaning and complaining about everything and she was doing it in clear hearing distance of patrons. She did this the whole time we were there. She even bitched to people at the bar about the bartender. I came pretty damn close to asking to speak to someone in management about that. Even though the food was good I really don’t think I should have to listen to a server air her dirty laundry about her co workers.
I read your review on Panino Brothers and you highly recommended it. What happened to change that?…..
February 19th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
I’m not going to get into it but suffice to say that “service issues” cover it.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
And Mopey, it’s not ironic, it’s coincidental.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Mopey,
Are you a lawyer?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
lefty, now THAT would be ironic.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
No, I am not. I was a pre law major in college. But for a variety of reasons, I never perused law as a career. Like many, I do not work in the field I have my degree in. I also have an uncle who was a judge and have heard a lot from him over the years.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Sometimes I peruse law, but only when trying to beat a rap.
What do you do then, other than eat bad hamburgers?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Alcohol consumption in a public establishment is always at the discretion of whomever is serving. The problem can be the mood of the server, bad day, crappy tips, you remind them of an ex… who knows. Bill and his buddies seemed to be on the short end of the whims of a server, pity. Fortunately there are people who jovial just down the road. Skol!
Hey, Mopey, in which fine establishment can we expect to find you this week?
February 19th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Mopey, what part of “I WAS STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO HIM THE WHOLE ENTIRE NIGHT” don’t you understand?
If there was a problem, I would have witnessed it. The four of us were playing Golden Tee, so we were literally within a five foot radius for the entire three-plus hours.
The patrons around us were pleasant to the point that we had conversations with them outside and in passing.
The bartender (and there were three by the way) had some reason to limit him that had NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM/HIS BEHAVIOR.
That’s why Bill chose to put this up as a topic — because it was extraordinary to cut someone off simply because they had a certain volume of drinks, when they were otherwise just quietly enjoying the bar with friends.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
Silly MSPD! Just because you were standing there witnessing the event does not, in any way, trump Mopey’s knowledge of the situation through his Uncle’s place on the bench.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Sorry, I am slow I guess. Who estimated him at .25 bac?
4 beers in 3.5 hours is not .25. If he was really three times the legal limit it’s hard to say what he did or said to someone in passing that may have caused this. Say what you wast, but I doubt you walked him to the bathroom, etc.
I agree with Siu 100 percent here and find it hard to believe you would tip zero dollars for someone doing what you have made clear you feel is their legal obligation.
As sal noted, he should have had a soda and sobered up. His score on Golden Tee has little to do with his sobriety.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Granted, I haven’t been around too many drunk folks, I do know that of those I was around, they never really could believe that they were actually drunk. And when drunk, I’ve never seen one of them not served. So yeah, it seems weird that Carbone’s decided not to serve your friend. Could he have dated one of the servers or bartenders in the past and been a bad boy?
Seems MN Law is pretty clear, and there is precedent for bars getting in deep for over serving. I know my sister-in-law claims she cut folks off at the Rosemount Legion when she was working there. I guess I generally don’t have any issue with cutting people off if you feel they are intoxicated. It’s not like someone is going to die if they don’t get that one more beer. It was stupid for the bartender to be estimating B.A.C. and then justifying actions based on such a WAG. A good bartender should be good at people watching and looking for the signs of excess alcohol.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Chad,
It is their right and I encourage it. I also encourage people who feel that their service wasn’t stellar to not tip. In this case the service was so poor that we never received any more. That’s not worth my money. Sorry you disagree.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Which was?
Really? If the service was so bad why did 2 of your buddies tip then?
Was the real reason he got cut off was that the drinks weren’t coming fast enough and he bitched too many times?
Why was this “poor service” comment not mentioned in the original topic/poll piece?
That kind of changes the viewpoint just a bit don’t you think?
February 19th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
1. I have already explained what she said.
2. I don’t know if/what they tipped her. I also don’t care. I made a choice. You can question it all you like however it doesn’t change my opinion.
3. No. That’s not the reason. At all. But hey, you’re free to make up reality as it suits your arguments if it makes you feel better.
4. Because the “poor service” isn’t relevant to the situation.
5. It doesn’t change it, no.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:14 pm
I dont know. I would still be interested in knowing where the .25 bac came from. Is that an accurate real number or just something you threw into the mix. Because, I am sorry to pull a mopey, but over three times the legal limit makes me think it’s more likely he threw up in the bathroom, or jostled someone going to get a drink, or whatever. If he really only had 4 drinks in 3.5 hours, that’s a different story, and his bac was not .25, unless he weighs about 70 lbs.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
It’s something the bartender said “they” estimated. Those were her words. It’s as simple as that. That estimation, as poor as it was, is exactly what is central to this discussion.
February 20th, 2012 at 5:55 am
If that I the case it sounds like a misunderstanding, if he had really only had four drinks in 3.5 hours. Unless he was drinking triples.
February 20th, 2012 at 6:46 am
OK whatever, I just find it weird that someone estimated BAC by observation only and that was their justification to cut him off.
In my reality, I’d have wonder if this guy had a run in with the same bartender prior to that night, and she was a little gun shy of him.
February 20th, 2012 at 6:51 am
She was there two weeks earlier too. If she was “gun shy” of him (which is another fantasy to fit the reality you’d like being that HE’s the one who is shy) she shouldn’t have served him any.
February 20th, 2012 at 8:06 am
Ok, on a computer now, instead of an IPAD, so I can type a little more without wanting to throw my IPAD out a window.
Something clearly does not add up. I had thought possibly Carbones had one of those breathalyzers where you pay a buck and get your accurate BAC, as I have seen in some places around town. As much as you have all said nothing happened, either something happened and you missed it, such as on a trip to the bathroom or going outside to smoke, or its purely a misunderstanding. No bartender who has been working more than a couple weeks, particularly at a busy place like that, thinks anyone has a BAC of .25 after 4 drinks in 3.5 hours. Its also hard to fathom a discussion where that would be the response.
“Why did you cut me off?”
“Because you BAC is .25″
Huh? So, either there is more to the story or she had him mixed up with someone who was drinking much heavier. Or perhaps one of the waitresses boyfriends wanted to play golden tee and was tired of waiting for you guys to leave.
Regardless, if you are going to make the bar responsible, you have to defer to their criteria for protecting themselves.
February 20th, 2012 at 9:25 am
BAC can not be estimated with observation. A hardcore alcoholic, for example, can have a very high BAC and not show any signs to a casual outside observer. A person who has a low tolerance could be a complete idiot even though well below the legal .08 limit. BAC can be estimated with consumption formulas if they are used correctly.
February 20th, 2012 at 9:32 am
Chad, there is no legal limit for drinking if you’re not driving. So he wasn’t over any “legal limit”.
I was also at Panino Bros. for lunch yesterday on a coincidental note.
February 20th, 2012 at 10:10 am
COME ON MAN….put the thumbs up/down on your comments. Classic.
This is irrelevant and inaccurate.
I did tip a bartender (not the same one that cut off this guy) when I ordered my one and only drink three hours before this happened. I don’t know if the DD tipped on his pop, but if he did, it was also at the beginning of the evening or attached to Bill’s tab/the other person’s tab.
The server brought me a few waters and a Diet Coke later in the evening but didn’t charge me for it, so I didn’t have an opportunity to tip (I would have).
I don’t fault them for not tipping, although it wouldn’t have been my M.O. If they want to make a statement to the establishment, it’s one of many legit ways of providing feedback. The bartender will tell management, “hey, our uber harsh application of the ‘cutoff’ is costing me tips” and give the restaurant an opportunity to consider their choice.
Wouldn’t be my approach, but I don’t fault them for it.
Chad….
I totally respect where you’re coming from and I appreciate that you seem to understand the distinction between “curiosity” and just making shit up/posting from a fantasy world like Mopey. I’m giving my word that it happened exactly as Bill and I have explained. I’ll go point by point:
Exactly. That’s what made it so surreal and why Bill decided to post this. The “not adding up” is what makes for a compelling blog article and discussion.
The comments are right, nobody accompanied him to the bathroom. (I did accompany Bill and this guy outside on the smoke breaks to cool off from the surprisingly intense and crazy physical rigor of Golden Tee).
However…there is a bouncer there. We walked by him several times. He and the entire staff knew 2 of the 4 of us weren’t drinking and the 3rd (Bill) was not exhibiting any drunkenness. The servers were interacting with us casually.
If “something happened”, they would have addressed it earlier. The bouncer would have come by and said something or talked to him on one of the trips outside. The servers would have said, “hey, your buddy is being a dick…reign him in”. The adjacent patrons would have moved away from us. The bartender would have given a different explanation. Someone would have said something.
If “something happened”, they would not have let him simply continue to hang out.
EXACTLY. That was my reaction. “HUH?” I couldn’t believe it. But that was it. (Although I recall it being 5 drinks, not 4). That was her explanation. No “incident”, no “your buddy is being a dick”, no “look at him, he’s falling over”. Just the “mathematical” justification.
There are two Golden Tee machines and the 2nd one was open the entire time we were there.
This is where I, personally, agree with you. My first sentence on here was that I am all for bars cutting people off.
I don’t have any problem with them doing this. But, I found it unusual to an extreme, inconsistent with the way bars operate around the Twin Cities, and a curious study (the bar’s approach/reasoning).
All in all this has piqued my curiosity to the point that I am tempted to go back there and ask the bartender. Hell, if Mopey is chummy enough to exchange Christmas gifts with every bartender in every bastion of averageness in the entire south metro, maybe he can get his bartender pals at Carbone’s to come here and comment (but, for heaven’s sake not him again).
I’d like to hear more about what was clearly a bar’s policy issue and not a patron issue.
February 20th, 2012 at 10:37 am
MSPD, IIRC the discrepancy is that she told me 4 and she told him 4-5. I went with 4 but it could have gone as high as 5. I believe he brought me one of my beers which may have then been on his tab. I figured 4 was the safer bet.
February 20th, 2012 at 11:19 am
You guys are leaving out a possibility, maybe the bartender was just a power abusing asshole!
February 20th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
dm, I understand and agree that there is no legal limit for consumption in MN, if you are not driving. It was an error on my part and only used as a reference point. The idea being that if someone is at .08 they are considered to be legally unable to operate a motor vehicle. I am old enough to remember that this used to be higher. For the sake of discussion, as Sui points out, this is not really a reflection of how a person acts, but I use it to illustrate that if the person really was at .25, which is over three times the “legal limit” to operate a motor vehicle, it would be very reasonable that a bartender might have observed some sort of intoxicated behavior, such as bumping someone on the way to the bathroom, stumbiling, running into a doorway, or any of the myraid small ways a person behaves when they begin to get drunk. At which point, regardless of the “legal limit”, the bar is, as we have beaten to death on another thread, obligated to step in and stop serving alchol.
I was operating under the assumption that the .25 was accurate, and either from a BAC machine in the bar, or an estimate on one of the available apps. The idea that the waitress would guess at someeones BAC and cut him/her off based on that seems almost impossible. Given what seem to be facts, that the person had 4 or 5 drinks in a 3 to 4 hour window, its clear that the bartender either was confused on who was drinking what, or there was something else that happened which nobody who has posted witnessed.
In any event, I would agree with MSPD that it is very curious, and I would love to hear the “other side of the story”, if there is one to be told. It could be as simple as what Seppuku said in post 68, or what Sui said in post 19.
February 21st, 2012 at 10:59 am
I didn’t go this far: http://twentytwowords.com/2012/02/21/customer-leaves-his-waiter-the-worst-tip-possible/
February 21st, 2012 at 11:07 am
You appear to have said you went exactly that far. What gives? That you didn’t take a picture of it?
February 21st, 2012 at 11:13 am
You clearly missed the picture or you’re trying to make a joke out of a joke.
February 21st, 2012 at 11:23 am
Never mind…I read that wrong. Stupid lefty…
February 21st, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Wow, I never thought of that. I wonder if it would work!
February 21st, 2012 at 5:28 pm
And now the other side of the story…..
I went to Carbone’s for happy hour with a friend after work tonight and talked to the bartender that did the cutting off. And, as usual there are 2 sides to every story, and hers is a little different then what was reported here.
The person cut off ordered 5 beers in a 2 and 1/2 hour time period. BUT, they were 25 ounce beers, which are the equivalent to about 10 and 1/2 bottles or cans of beer. That’s where the rough estimate of the .25 BAC came from.
The reason he got cut off was because he went to the bar to order another beer, and when he did he tried to lean against the bar and FAILED epically, He missed the bar entirely. When he recovered from that his eyes were swimming/wandering all over the place. THAT is when the decision to cut him off was made. And, it was not the decision of 1 bartender. It was the decision of 2 of them. They both agreed he had enough. The bartender that that did the cutting off has 15 years experience in bar tending and did recognize they guy she cut off. She had served him there before. It was a call that her fellow bar tender totally agreed to and she stands by it. It doesn’t matter whether he was driving or not, but when he totally missed the bar when he tried to lean against it and then his eyes were all over the place enough was enough. As for the tip. She received none and doesn’t care, because she feels she did the right the thing. For the ones that did tip the other bartender. They split tips so she got part of that anyway.
Anyways…that’s the other side of the story….
February 21st, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Weird, we thought for sure you’d be at Old Chicago.
February 21st, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Apparently, you all aren’t as smart as you think you are…..
Any retort to what I posted above?…Anything I got wrong?…
February 21st, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Anything YOU got wrong? Probably not. I have no reason to doubt your retelling of the bartender’s story. The bartender’s story, however, is another thing all together.
February 21st, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Oh and you clearly lack any and all sense of humor.
February 21st, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Well….I will ask the other bar tenders side later in the week. I was actually told to ask the other one in case I doubted the bar tenders version I heard this afternoon. The bar tender I talked to this afternoon, I never knew before this afternoon. The other one, I do know and will trust her side is she backs it up…..
Things work both ways Bill. I have know reason to doubt that you and your minion believe what you said. But, I have the luxury of now having heard both sides of story. The truth….it’s probably some where in the middle
February 21st, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Minion. Heh. Original!
February 21st, 2012 at 5:59 pm
I actually thought some of the stuff posted about me here earlier was funny. I really don’t mind when people laugh at me. It’s the internet for Christs sake! It’s not like anyone here is a friend of mine and I would give a boot full of warm piss about what they think of me! At least I’m keeping your post count up. The only one who really missed the boat was your minion. I don’t go to Applebees, unless my parents come up to visit. They like Applebees. Teresa’s and OC. They would be in the mix so I can’t argue that. For the record. I know no one at Teresa’s, but I do know people at OC….
You all should really get to know that bartenders and servers at the places you go…
February 21st, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Mopey,
Did you get to the bottom of the .25 estimate? This is really at the heart of this caper. I am also wondering if you made all that up.
The day I “get to know my bartenders better” is the day before I check into rehab.
lefty
February 21st, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Another funny thing Bill…
Apparently I resemble some one in your party that night. Tall, short hair and a goatee. I originally asked another employee there, who both bar tends and serves, about things and she took me to the bar tender who did the cutting off, and she thought I was one of your group at 1st coming back to question her!…lol
February 21st, 2012 at 6:19 pm
How is that funny.
I find it ironic.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Nope. You don’t. No one in my group is ridiculous enough to have a goatee.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Lefty….
She said she has 15 years experience and did the math, She estimated his weight and applied it against the amount of alcohol he had in a 2 and 1/2 hour time period. As I said, it’s the missing the bar with the lean and his wandering eyes that got him cut off, not anything he did before that. If you doubt me, Go ask her yourself.
Also…I like to drink….I don’t deny that in the least. Hell, I make happy hour about 3 days a week. That’s why I know my bar tenders! And, bar tenders move around a lot. That’s why I know so many at so many different places. I get to know them at one place and they move to another, then I get to know the new ones at the places they moved on from. It’s a repeating thing. It has its benefit’s….Like me or no one I am with ever gets cut off. I am a blue collar man, who likes his booze and never misses a day of work because of it……Maybe that’s why I am not picky and choosey about my food…..Probably not though, That comes from being a small town person who learned not to be picky and choosey about things, because having a sensitive palate and complaining about things don’t play well there. You get told to drive about 30 miles down the road to the next town and try things there if your not happy. Where they are just as insensitive to picky and fussy eaters……See my point?
February 21st, 2012 at 6:36 pm
So Bill….
Why I am I guessing you have a goatee?…
February 21st, 2012 at 6:46 pm
It’s not ironic, it’s coincidental! ;)
February 21st, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Mopey, I don’t see your point.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:54 pm
Christ lefty….
Ironic, coincidental, funny. Who cares? Do you want me to get my nephew, who is an English teacher, up here to tell us the difference between the 3 and go through all the posts here for grammatical and usage accuracy?….I’m sure he’d pick everyone’s posts here, including Bills, to pieces for errors!
February 21st, 2012 at 7:07 pm
You should have your nephew critique the post above that uses the word “choosey” at least two times.
How many down the hatch so far tonight Mopey?
February 21st, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Mopey, you’re either the most hilarious human being alive (an English teacher nephew and an uncle on the bench, what’s next an aunt in Congress?) or the most ridiculous.
I think the goatee puts you in the later category however. And no, I don’t have one nor will I ever. You either can grow a full beard or you shave your face clean. Don’t half ass it.
February 21st, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Oz…
No one who is not from a small town would see my point…..
February 21st, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Lefty….
not enough
February 21st, 2012 at 7:22 pm
Bill…
“have” ass it….or “half” ass it?…..
February 21st, 2012 at 7:23 pm
What?
February 21st, 2012 at 7:26 pm
or maybe “halve”…
Went back and changed the spelling did you?…..Must be nice to own the website and be able to do that.
February 21st, 2012 at 7:27 pm
God is great.
February 21st, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Yup…
It’s good to be the King, isn’t it!?….
February 21st, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Awesome.
You made Mopey look stupid. That’s hard to do! err…
February 21st, 2012 at 7:55 pm
This is an alarming thread. It’s not my blog, but can’t everyone play nice?
February 21st, 2012 at 8:02 pm
Chad, I assumed that he likes having some fun. I didn’t see any harm in that.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Chad, FYI, it’s just a pet peeve of mine, the “legal limit” thing, it’s used widespread, which for some reason annoys me.
Mopey, no need for your nephew, English teacher, right here. I also happen to have a lawyer handy if needed. I am fresh out of congresspersons though, I did vote for my husband for attorney general once, and when you get right down to it, I work for elected officials.
Let me know when my assistance is needed.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Well….
I heard bar tender number 2′s side of the story this afternoon? She pretty much confirmed the other bar tenders story, but in much more unpolitical manner, I’m guessing that’s because she knows me.
I am going to end my part in this discussion by saying that I think the question posed was done so in a misleading manner. It was posed as what do you think about Carbone’s cutting people of after 3-4 beers. What do most people think 3-4 beers mean? I though 3-4 tap beers, which are 16 ounces. That is why I had a hard time believing the story. The facts of the matter is that it was 5 25 ounce beers. There’s a hell of a lot of difference between 3-4 16 ounce beers and 5 25 ounce beers. Had the question been posed what do you think about Carbone’s cutting some off after over 10 bottles of beer (the equivalent of 5 25 ounce beers) I wonder what the responses would have been? Had they served him beer number 6, that would have been over a 12 pack in 2 hours and 33 minutes (which is the time between when the tab was opened and closed).
Lefty, the secret to the .25 BAC level I was told was that the register/computer they use has a program on it where the bartenders can keep track of how much has been served and in how much time. It will give them a rough estimate as to the BAC level. I do have to admit, I question that to a a degree because how can they know who drank what on whose tabs? But, they both agreed in this case the person in question had the 5 beers on that tab.
In the end it was the missed lean against the bar and the wandering eyes that got him cut off. The bar tender tonight did an impression of it. Lets just say iot wasn’t flattering.
As for tips. Like the other one she don’t care and added that they remember who tips and who doesn’t the next time they see them…..
Of course, I am sure I am doubted on this. But, all you need to to do to confirm it is to go to Carbone’s and talk to either them to see if I am full of shit or not…..
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:46 pm
ironic is the opposite of what is expected, for instance, the Alanis Morrisette song is ironic, because you would expect her examples to be ironic, and none of them are.
Coincidental is an instance of happenstance. As in, if you and I happened to be at Panino Brothers for lunch on the same day.
Funny is a relative term dependent upon the environment, material and audience. For example, Lefty frequently thinks he’s funny and the rest of us don’t.
Here’s a freebie. “Your” indicates ownership and “you’re” is the equivalent of “you are”.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:03 pm
No help needed with elected officials dm, but thanks for asking. I am politically active and have all the contacts I need.
February 23rd, 2012 at 8:48 am
I think it is ironic, coincidental and funny that the two Google ads that show up while I am reading this thread are for a rehab program and a bartending school.
Google sure knows how to cover both sides of the aisle.
February 26th, 2012 at 7:02 am
[...] week’s poll asked about being cut off from drinks at a bar. A lively and, at times, heated discussion ensued with one person going so far as to talk to the [...]
March 4th, 2012 at 1:15 am
Have you ever been cut off at a bar for farting too much??
Well tonoght was a first for me at the Valley Tap in Apple Valley…..