Wow.. that’s just.. wow. That’s something a 12yr old would do when he was getting scolded by his parents.. Note very mature for a presidential candidate. I’d say he should act his age, but how is dirt supposed to act?
While it is no secret that I am firmly with the Democrats, even I was shocked at McCain’s bizarre behavior during the debate. He wouldn’t look at Obama, wouldn’t speak directly to him, referred to him only in the 3rd person, etc. Strange behavior for someone that wants to run the country. Actually, he acts a lot like G.W., arrogant and exactly like Tim said “a 12yr old getting scolded by his parents.” I’m sure this skill comes in handy for negotiating with allies and terrorists alike, I mean look how well loved we Americans are since G.W. took over 8 years ago.
Oh yeah, Kaiser, I forgot that we don’t pay any taxes now and haven’t for the past 8 years. Man, it feels great to be tax free! And this “war” we’re fighting…that is free too, right? Good thing we don’t have to chip in to bail out the financial mess we’re in right now…we can keep all that money to reinvest in our failing economy. Things are so awesome right now! I think I will go bury my head in the sand for another 4 years…on second thought I will dip myself in flour and join the KFC campaign.
Prepare to strap one on should Obama win in November. You might think you pay taxes now, but we’ll all be taxed to oblivion if BHO is elected.
Blame the current administration all you want, let’s not stick it to McCain as if he IS the current administration. By the way, the Democrats have owned BOTH the House and Senate for the past 2 years and what’s happened since?
I can’t wait to have a president who’s best move so far has been to vote present. That shows he’s willing to stand for… nothing. Barack Obama = Coward.
In a way it sounds like we somewhat agree. I do not support McCain in most of what he says or stands for, but I am more aligned with him than anything that spews from the mouth of Obama. It’s a terrible situation we face in America today when most Americans can’t fully support either of the candidates for President.
Now, since my family (just Mr Marcos and me) makes less than 227k per year – hold on, that makes me giggle…anyway, since we’re under the 227k per year income level our taxes will actually be LESS under President Obama than under President McCain. Whats that? I couldn’t hear over the chickens clucking. Anyway, our taxes would actually be $200 less per year based on Snopes info.
No chickens or Colonels were harmed in the making of this post.
To anyone who feels like answering, but mostly Mrs Marcos:
I am an undecided voter, and I was fairly interested in both McCain and Obama. McCain has an incredible story, dating back several generations. Obama has an incredibly story as well, and I liked that his election might do alot for both foreign and race relations.
I have to say that the last two weeks has radically changed my view of both men. While your (Scopes) interpretation of Obamas tax plan might be accurate given the facts they had, its also going to be nearly impossible for any of the many and varied plans for education, infrastructure, energy, healthcare, etc that Obama has supported to have any hope of coming to life if we spend 700,000,000,000.00 bailing out Wall Street. Its also fair to say that if we DONT spend 700,000,000,000.00 bailing out Wall Street, we may have some all new but incredibly serious issues, if the “EXPERTS” are to be believed. Most of these same experts told us three weeks ago that everything was fine. Fannie and Freddie were fine. The banks were fine. Everything was fine.
I guess now its not fine. And both of our choices for president seem to have lost any and all ability to lead or direct thier parties, and much worse, BOTH agree with Bush that a 700,000,000,000.00 is the only way out of this mess. No debate, just do it. They agree to the point that they are willing to subvert the constitution of our country and start the bill in the Senate, even though the constitution clearly states that this type of bill is to start in the House. Nothing like making up the rules as you go along.
So, while I think its nice that you like the things that Obama said BEFORE he spent 700,000,000,000.00 of our money, I would like to hear him talk about what is going to have to change after the 700,000,000,000.00 that we dont have is spent. I might also point out that this is MORE money than Bush spent in 5 years in Iraq, the last two years of which were funded by appropriations approved by a democratic house and senate, who were elected largely on promises to end the war.
To say I am disillusioned with Obama is an understatement. And I am just afraid that McCain does not even grasp the problem.
Somebody feel free to chime in and allay my concerns.
Although I put up a Democratic front (mostly because I like to get laid once in a while and that’s pretty much a prerequisite in my house), I am decidedly unaffiliated and have voted for more than one candidate from many parties. I tend to seek out unbiased opinions, which is easier said than done.
National & global economies are far beyond what anyone on this blog can fully comprehend (if that offends anyone, you’re probably the reason I don’t read a lot of these blogs). But there are several very knowledgeable economists that at very least put their own credibility above their affiliations, and the one thing THEY seem to agree upon is that a total crash would be inevitable without the buyout, and that $700B is pennies compared to what it would cost to rebuild from scratch. That’s really the critical point though – is it inevitable. This is just my observation – you shouldn’t have a problem finding more experienced sources than me.
I will say though, since you touched on this, that it’s typically a democratic idea to throw public money at this kind of problem, so the fact that GW is in a sense crossing a party line on this matter by recognizing that the alternative would be far worse, earns him a brownie point or two in my mind. That has no bearing on much of anything, but worth mentioning since it’s a little rare.
I am not trying to pick on you, or take a side, everything I stated was sincere, and I was hoping for real answers. Your statement about economists does not meet with what I have found from several days of research. One poll of over 200 economists stated that the 700,000,000,000 will not help and/or solve anything. I tend to try to find opinions on each side of an argument and look for the truth from there. A collection of information on both politics and the economy that I regularly read is realclearpolitics.com. Its simply articles and stories from papers and blogs around the country. I have yet to find a concensus on the bailout.
All that said, my question was really more in terms of the overall lack of leadership from BOTH McCain and Obama, and the lack of any sort of input on what this is going to do to the grand plans that Obama had for our country. I am willing to accept that something needs to be done, although I am quite unwilling to accept that 700,000,000,000 can be considered mere pennies in any context.
I had hoped one of these men would stand up and show he was willing to make an effort to fix things, instead of both of them more or less just falling into lines with the leadership of thier respective parties.
Your statement about Bush crossing party lines is fairly accurate imho, although most of the reps that voted against the plan in the house were either on the far left or the far right. The center of both parties seems to feel that giving 700,000,000,000.00 to thier friends on wall street will somehow keep the sky from falling.
About as non-partisan as it gets. While I hardly claim to be non-partisan, I would object to being called ignorant for disagreeing with what are in fact, political opinions. Kaiser’s example of resorting to name calling instead of engaging in debate suggests that while he can read and quote Fox News Hype, he really doesn’t have the capital to hold up his end of an argument, see Sarah Palin for a better example. Clearly he so completely hates Obama and Democrats that he will not be able to succinctly argue a point.
I also find it quite ironic that the Kaiser and those who would look to twist facts, would suggest that the Democratic Congress has been responsible for the increase in spending, especially around this war. This is the same group who would suggest, out of the other side of their mouth that the Democratic congress has done nothing in the last two years. A position I would hold.. can’t have it both ways.
I would also point out the the appropriations bills passed about the war, had they been defeated by the Democrats would have come back in spades as demonstrations of their disloyalty to the country and their turning their backs on our service men and women… its a no win situation. You can not be for the war and for lowering taxes, they’re irreconcilable.
Fact is- Under Bush spending has gone through the roof, most of it related to the war.
Facts are, under Bush and under a Republican congress, in 2004, the single biggest expansion of Socialized Medicine this country has seen since the Johnson administration was passed into law. That would be prescription benefits.
Fact is taxes will not be raised for most Americans under the Obama administration, but they will be for folks making over the $115000 thresh hold. More importantly taxes will go up on corporations.. This is where the debate between the Reganites and Supply Side folks (not ignorant mind you just opinion). Actually the taxes wouldn’t be raised per se, instead the vehicles these companies are using to avoid paying taxes, like setting up holding companies, or taking ownership of inventory after it’s been sold, or booking contract income after the same has been reinvested (Xerox) would have the same effect as raising taxes.. but if you believe in the free market, all you’re really doing is setting a level playing field for everyone by closing these loopholes for the big boys.
That alone will raise a tremendous amount of revenue.
Finally, for Chad… this “bailout” while angersome and seeming unfair, is needed to facilitate a soft landing for the economy while market works through these bad investment issues. If something isn’t done the scenario could unfold where we have significant bank failures, a complete elimination of credit for consumers for a period of time.. you’ll still get your credit cards, but be prepared to pay cash for that car and house. While some would think that’s a good thing to not be in debt, long term beneficial debt, like a mortgage, has great benefits to you and the community as working capital is freed up. With out home prices will really plummet, and we will see massive unemployment as the effects ripple through the economy.
Then we’ll really see what’s what as the mother of all new deals as the government takes over everything like we’ve seen around the world when this sort of thing has happened before.
It’s a bad scenario. The better option, bail out, soft land, then when were a bit stable put the needed regulations in place to keep this from happening again, like legislating capital to loan ratios and short selling. THEN.. some of the bastards should be put in jail for putting the country at risk for their own greed.
Sank, I appreciate the input, and I agree that something needs to be done. I just dont agree that the only option is the bailout. I also dont know if I can trust what Paulson and Bush said when they stated that those things are GOING to happen. They may happen. Or perhaps investors and banks with money will step in and buy up the bad debt for cheap, the countries and corps that bought into the derivatives will lose a bundle, and the free market will show that in the end it can sustain meddling by the idiots we have in charge.
I do think that if/when they pass the plan it had better work, because if it does not, there is no fall back option. The one thing I see in everything I read about the plan from economists, political hacks, and journalists is that nobody can say that it will work. The only people saying it WILL WORK FOR SURE, are Paulson and Bush, who told us three weeks ago that there was not a problem. That scares me………..alot.
Personally I think they are fascinating little devils. I would have four or five in the yard if my wife was not truly afraid of them. But if they really did run off with the weapons of mass destruction, perhaps she is correct in her fears.
Maybe that’s what’s hidden under the piles of flowers, gold or whatever the hell else they put in the little wheelbarrows that they push around! Sneaky little bastards — your wife may be on to something.