Back in December I covered the disappointing decision by the Burnsville/Eagan/Savage ISD 191 to open an arts magnet school in the very expensive and very empty Burnsville Performing Arts Center. Well, the saga continues with a recent Star Tribune fluff article which rants and raves about how people are attracted to the magnet being offered by ISD 191.
Why is this article fluff you ask? Well, because only 65 of 150 (43% of the magnet’s max enrollment and less than 2.75% of Burnsville HS’ overall enrollment) possible arts magnet spots are taken as of this point in time and being that it costs approximately (and mind you, this math is very general) $10,000/student to operate this magnet. While that’s great for those 65 students, the rest of the students in the district are suffering because of a politically backed 4-3 decision to get people into the PAC and using it–instead of it remaining empty like it does for the rest of the year–all while screwing taxpayers out of even more of their hard earned money by funneling $135,000 more a year into that worthless money pit.
Now we all know that the magnet was a poorly conceived idea which was only to funnel money into the coffers of the city but what about the benefit it will provide to the very few students that wander its cavernous halls? After all, that’s what spending money for education is all about–giving students a chance at bettering themselves under a rigorous program aimed at really challenging them, right? Unfortunately for the students attending the ISD 191 arts magnet and the thousands of taxpayers funding it, that doesn’t seem to be the case at all.
From the Star Tribune article:
Ballet’s not as bad as I thought it would be,” said Sharp, one of 65 students at the brand-new Envision Academy of the Arts. “It’s actually kind of tough to do. I underestimated it.
Please note that Mr. Sharp doesn’t mention dick about how tough the classes are that are tied to the ballet. Nope, nothing about that at all. Most would say well isn’t the point of an arts school–it’s meant to teach people the fine arts. Well, if they hadn’t spent $1.2 million dollars to build classrooms in an empty restaurant space and plan to spend an additional $800,000 a year after that in lease I would tend to agree. But aside from that, a quick look over the syllabi for some of the programs offered and you too will wonder what the fuck is going on over there. So on that note let’s take a quick look at one of the syllabuses for the dance courses offered at the Burnsville/Eagan/Savage (ISD 191) Performing Arts Magnet (you can see more on their terrible website here):
From: Arts Essential Syllabus
-PARTICIPATION Students will be graded on their positive attitude and willingness to try – each day students can earn up to 5 participation points. 120 Apx. Points possible
-VOCABULARY and MOVEMENT At the end of the 5 week sampler students will take a written and experiential skills test demonstrating what they have learned throughout the session. 20 points
-JOURNAL Students will need to keep a daily journal and have a binder with paper and pen. What should be included in your journal? New movement skills and vocabulary words that you have learned, thoughts on how class is going, how you feel you are doing, what you notice other students doing, thoughts on dance as an art form in general, thoughts on how dance is applicable to what you do in your daily life…
These will be handed in at the mid-way point and at the end of the 5 week session
25 pointsTotal 165 Apx. Points Possible
Now, I don’t know about you but when I was in HS I would have absolutely loved a cake class like this one. Show up to class (which is mandatory for most HS students anyway) and not fall alseep and get a 72% (which I assume is still a passing grade). Sounds like a real toughie! I looked at a couple of the other syllabi and found similar (if not identical) course requirements. I don’t know what “high quality, licensed staff in all areas at Envision,” (via their unlinkable FAQ) means but compared to what is available elsewhere in the academic world–this does not cut the mustard at all. Is the “oh, you just have to try thing” something new that was enacted in the 10+ years since I graduated HS? When I was there I did my fair share of goofing off but I paid for it. It would appear that offering only the bare minimum will get you everywhere in ISD 191. Where is the outrage from parents and taxpayers?!
So, now that you know that the ISD 191 arts magnet is a complete and utter joke meant only to siphon more money away from the taxpayers of multiple cities, what do you think about ISD 191′s Envision Academy of the Arts magnet school located in the HOC and Burnsville Performing Arts Center? Do you think, based on the syllabi listed above and the low enrollment numbers, that this is worth $1.2 million this year and $800,000/year thereafter? Do you think that students will end up exiting the program in shape and ready to go for arts professions or post-secondary arts education when the hardest test is “trying”? Whatever you think about Burnsville/Eagan/Savage School District (ISD 191)’s arts magnet go ahead and comment on and let’s see if we can come up with better coursework than these so called “high quality, licensed staff members”.
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September 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Wow, 65 students enrolled!!
10 Courses offered, 3 in Dance, 2 in Music and 5 in Theatre.
I would be curious to see the class sizes for each of these courses.
Bill your number of 2.75% for Burnsville High Enrollment at Envision is even high. The number on the ISD 191 website of 2375 for enrollment is for grades 10-12. The Envision Academy has open enrollment for applications for grades 9-12 so add another 1/3 to the 2375 and you have 3170. With this level of students able to enroll it comes to 2% of the students are enrolled at the magnet. Glad to see that we are passing kids and awarding honors in the arts where you simply have to show up with a positive attitude and complete a journal.
I will be curious 3 years from now to see the percentage of Envision Academy students who go onto college, Julliard or a similar arts school ( I think they may have higher requirements than simple attendance and a positive attitude) and those that enter the workforce right out of this magnet school.
Does the magnet school also have a job placement counselor? Try to make a living as an actor/actress at the Old Log Theatre, as an extra in a play, commercial or movie, musician of sorts in an orchestra or cover band, replace Wolf Larson as the PAC Director or even a full time gig as the Burnsville Chuck E. Cheese mascot? But hey, if these kids are happy with their career aspirations or simply as an extra curricular addition to their career aspirations out of highschool or further education in the Arts, I wish them luck and all the best!!
September 24th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Their academic requirements are quite relaxed–in fact, they really don’t have any (no SAT/ACT/etc) and only require an essay to be written, three years of experience, and an audition to be done. I still highly doubt that after 3-4 years of “oh as long as you try your best!!” will get them into Julliard.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Once again Bill you are correct in your assessment of admissions criteria to Julliard.
Silly me, look at the costs to attend a year at Julliard, $46-$50,000 per year!
Well at those costs and in today’s economy no wonder they will review anyone’s application based on their ability to afford to go there without any merit applied to SAT/ACT scores!
To the 65 Envision Academy Students – Take full advantage of the tax payer funded opportunity you have at Envision Academy as we are funding in excess of $10,000 per year, per student specific to your highschool education in the arts!!
Julliard Student Budget
The estimated budget for a Juilliard student for the nine-month academic year 2009-10 is calculated as follows:
Tuition $30,500
Room and Board (residence hall and meal plan)
Double Room 11,810
Single Room 14,740
Subtotals
Double Room 42,310
Single Room 45,240
Books, Supplies, Personal Expenses 4,100
Totals
Double Room $46,410
Single Room $49,340
September 24th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Without sounding too cynical, this magnet school sounds like an extension of District #191′s Cedar Alternative Program. And the previous school board wanted to spend 2 million dollars to convert and partially rent the corner vacant space at Grand Market Place…..nothing more than an HOC bale out…….. follow the money!
September 24th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I don’t get it. As a graduate of BHS, and an arts nerd, I don’t get how in just 10 years (many of those years were economically difficult years at that) the arts have gained enough emphasis in B’ville to validate the opening of an arts magnate. When I was there the district would barely cough up the money to maintain the (actually quite good, considering) existing theater and music programs. Sports were always considered top priority, at the expense of the arts. Something about this magnate smells bad to me…
September 24th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Didn’t the state dept. of education mandate the arts magnet school for Burnsville to settle a discrimination suit? Not sure on this – just asking.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
The discussion back before the 4-3 vote centered around keeping it in the HS after retrofitting space there or building out the PAC space for $1.2m. So even if it was mandated, no one told them they had to put it in the HOC/PAC.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
“How do numbers make you feel? What does a plus sign smell like? Is the number 7 odd, or just different?” -Juliana Krellner
September 24th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Scooterbum,
This whole boondoggle came to fruition because the State of MN deemed Burnsville “Racially Isolated” compared to Lakeville. The money being spent is 3/4 State money and 1/4 Local money (as a an extra levy that didn’t need to be voted on, you’d be suprised how much money is levied without voter participation).
Needless to say Kanninen (former superintendent) and the school board were all too happy spending the money, because you know the State told them they had too. (it’s about the “Diversity” don’t you know and nothing says “Diversity” like a performing arts magnet school).
It’s really crazy once you get to know how all this crap works.
September 26th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Bill:
In January, the board, with some new members, reversed that December vote (by a different 4-3 margin, with new players) and kept the core academic classes at the high school’s main campus. The faction that prevailed in December wanted to put the core classes (math, social studies, etc.) in the restaurant space.
There was no buildout of the restaurant space to accommodate the core academic classes. The space is not being rented.
The money that you said is being and will be spent on buildout and rental, isn’t.
Both factions on the board had long been in agreement that the PAC would be rented for the performance classes.
There was never talk of retrofitting the high school to house the whole thing (arts and core academics). The controversy was over whether to use the restaurant space or available space at the high school for the academic classes.
Buildout and rental in the HOC (restaurant space) would have required purely local, district spending — spending beyond what the deseg funds would provide.
September 26th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Cripes, damn it. I forgot all about that. Thanks for reminding me. I’ll fix the post tonight.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I AM A STUDENT AT ENVISION ! It’s amazingg. ! Just wait it’s going to be succsesful.
October 10th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Amazingg eh? Succesful eh?
They better be successful because you certainly won’t be winning any spelling bees anytime soon.
October 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
I read that the students had the opportunity to audition for the “Junior Claus” performance. No one made the cut. Looks like there is plenty of work ahead of these students to even be considered for smaller parts in a production! Will have to attend one of their performances and actually see how they are progressing or if this is just a boondoggle within a boondoggle.
October 11th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
First of all, I cannot believe that BHS is considered racially/diversitilly (new word) challenged. There are supposedly about 40 languages spoken within the student population. In addition, whomever lives in the district should go to the school in the district and who cares what “race” they are!! If you’re obsessed with how many of each culture are attending BHS, then you are RACIST.
I am a supporter of the arts and also sports. I am a slightly bigger supporter of academics. They seem to be ALL getting neglected at most schools these days. I was listening to MPR (the topic was about how to improve schools/standardized testing) and a visiting French woman called in. She said that we had our priorities all wrong and that we should be focusing our efforts on improving the teachers. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
As the parent of a student who recently graduated after an entire school career spent in 191, I can personally attest to the fact that while there are certainly some very good teachers in the district, it is the exception, not the rule. The elementary teachers were especially bad. The best grade school teacher that he had was not well-liked; I suspect it was because she actually had expectations of the students. His worst teacher (ever) was nominated for teacher of the year. She endorsed “creative spelling” (read: Spell it any way you want to, kids – we don’t want to hurt your feelings by telling you which things you’ve gotten wrong – I KID YOU NOT).
The papers sent home to the parents were riddled with grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. Since elementary school is where children are supposed to learn these things, perhaps it would be a good idea if their teachers were knowledgable in these areas.
Teaching seems to be a default career. I don’t know what teachers are paid these days, but I suspect that it’s just O.K. but the benefits are pretty good. I know that the politics, mandates, badly-parented kids, etc. are harrowing, but most jobs have their challenges.
Sorry for the rant, but education is VERY VERY important, and we seem to be screwing it up pretty well. If the parents are involved (in a good way, as in supporting our kids and teaching them the importance of trying to do well, not as in hanging out at the school whining), then our kids will probably get a pretty good education in spite if the system; if the parents are indifferent, the kids are probably screwed educationally. Maybe we should offer parenting school.
Thanks. Off-topic but it felt good.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Great post Sandy.
October 12th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Thanks!
(But you really shouldn’t encourage me.)
November 17th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
i have a few things to say….
First: FUCK ALL OF YOU WHO DONT ATTEND THE SCHOOL BUT THINK YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT.
Second: The school only has that low of an enrollment rate because 1)we dont have any seniors because it was not opened for them 2)it is a long commitment to do what we do in this school. 3) the class syllabi may seem easy but the shit we have to do is some hard ass work so you can back the fuck up.
Third: I hope in 2 years you do look up thee colleges we will be goin to cause ill bet you money we will succede your old run down ass in anything we do and wherever we decide to go to school.
And for all you bill dont hate on us kids now cause we have better schooling opprotunities then you did, its not our fault you fucked up. Get over it.
AND FOR ANY OF YOU WHO THINK THE 100 OR SO OF US STUDENTS JUST SIT AROUND ALL DAY COME TO THE TWELFTH NIGHT PERFORMANCE AND TALK SHIT AFTER WE SHOW YOU OUT.
I also have to say it pisses me off when thee grown and mature one in our society can sit on there fucking computers and talk negatively about something you haven’t experienced like little ass kids. Grow thee fuck up.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I wasn’t going to approve the above post because the commenter never replied to my e-mail to verify if it was valid. But, being that it’s so fucking awesome I just had to let it through so all of you would have a chance to see what fine learning goes on at ISD 191’s Arts magnet.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Wow, I hope they pantomime working a drive thru window in some of those theatre classes because I suspect many ‘graduates’ may advance to careers that involve “Would you like fries with that?”
November 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Damn it. My “Illiterate Ghetto Douchebag Translator Device” is at the Geek Squad for the next week. Does anyone have one I can borrow to decode Mikal’s post?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I know that the arts have always been taught at the high school. Why do we need a different offsite program at great cost? If the existing arts programs have been determined to be inadequate, then spend less money improving them. In another place and time, the city would be LENDING the PAC stage to the school when needed, providing the space was not booked (haha).
Mikal’s post is proof that arts schooling should not happen at the expense of academics.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Curious, I went online to check out the Envision Academy theater syllabi and noted this under the required texts/materials header for two classes:
I was laughing too hard to see whether this requirement extended to other art areas.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Where to start?
First: Gentle Mikal, we adults get to talk about your school because (a) we’re paying for it; (b) if you do not receive a quality education and end up (i) on assistance; (ii) in jail; or (iii) functionally illiterate to the point you do not reach your full potential, we pay for that too; and, last but not least, (c) we care.
Second: I’m glad you feel challenged at school. The syllabus referenced in this post, as provided by the district, does not demonstrate to taxpayers, however, that the grading system is rigorous. Case in point the fact that a good attitude is worth 120 points, but objective knowledge is worth only 20 points. I think trying to learn how to do a grand plié is great. But can you also tell me (be honest, without looking it up) who Anna Pavlova was and describe in detail her contributions to modern ballet?
Third: While I also admire your attempt to use the Shakespearean thee, please know that the proper syntax is to use it as a pronoun, not to replace the word “the.” Again, see the second point above regarding objective knowledge. Also, in order to give credence to your argument regarding your future success, you may want to spell “succeed” correctly. Please show your post to your English instructor, and ask her/him to point out all the errors. Then show the paper to your parents. Then report back here and let us know how that worked out for you. Hint: the little squiggly lines which show up under the word as you type it means that you’ve misspelled the word. You have tools available to you, which we did not have in our youth, and yet you’ve failed to use a spell check? Even Shakespeare used apostrophes.
I have more, but I am tired, and more than a little bit sad.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Whit, May I take writing lessons from you?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Okay, but first we’re going to have to find some nuns. Lots of nuns. Lots of nuns WITH habits (and metal rulers)….
November 20th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Whit gets the prize for most thoughtful response of the year.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Nuns…with rulers…I think someone might have stumbled upon her Halloween 2010 costume! Bravo, Whit!
April 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Heavens to betsy, I never imagined that a respectable adult like you could twist what is done in this program to what you did. I do not blame you though, the school was just starting, and you had no way of knowing what it was or would be. I am here to tell you, in all honesty, that I have learned more about performing and proffessionalism at this school than I have anywhere. I have learned music theory. There is no place that I could have done this at my income level. We have studied The method of physical actions. We have performed and, at long last, understood Shakespeare. I could not be any more grateful to this school. I love this school, this family. I never thought I would be arguing a trochee or spondee beginning to the first two sylables in a soliloquy. Ethnic chords, modes and modulation, Checkov, and emotional recall, so much useful jargon that I couldn’t learn anywhere else. This school has changed my life. Thanks for listening.
April 28th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Priceless
April 29th, 2011 at 8:28 am
If one is going to espouse the wonders of learning about Chekhov, perhaps spelling the name correctly would add credence to the argument.
Oh, and “professional” and “syllables”.
April 29th, 2011 at 8:53 am
I would like to thank Andrew Hjermstad for introducing me to this thread for two reasons:
A) This may be the best blog title that I have ever seen on this site, especially with all the discussion elsewhere about the failed Envision program.
2: I had not yet been aware of Mikal Steel’s most awesome post until now.
I think someone needs to tell Andrew that Envision is kaput.
April 29th, 2011 at 8:57 am
I like this one best: http://www.lazylightning.org/burnsville-councilman-dan-gustafson-is-full-of-shit
April 29th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Oof. The trochees and spondees most of these people sound like they’re working towards are “TO GO…or NOT to go? THAT is the question” and “DOST THOU DESIreth fries with thine FILET o’FISH?”
April 30th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
I apologize; I have no excuse, save that my telephone hasn’t any spell-check.
lefty, I’m glad you know a bit more of the picture now.
MSPD, that’s hateful.
I’m not sure if kaput is the word, lefty. I would say it’s more along the lines of murder, a fantastic explosion, or a herd of gazelles being electrocuted, one by one, in one of Thomas Edison’s infamous demonstrations.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
You certainly learned how to be a drama king. Good for you.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
It is, quite honestly, nothing at all like murder. Kids, for whatever reason, chose not to attend. Life is full of disappointments. Get used to it now.
May 1st, 2011 at 1:00 am
This article is the exact reason I had to leave Minnesota. “disappointing” decision to open this school? Your midwestern mindset is obviously blinded by your meaningless 135000 dollars a year. A kids education is certainly worth what, a dollar of your salary a year?
@Thought Leader. You are more of a thought follower.. You are dissing low class sizes? I’m assuming you want your kid to be in a class of 100, getting no personal time with the teacher? Good for you, cant wait to see your kids name on a head stone in the military cemetery when he’s 21 after failing college because his daddy stopped doing his homework.
You people are truly pathetic. Support the arts, not money.
May 1st, 2011 at 8:36 am
“I’m assuming you want your kid to be in a class of 100, getting no personal time with the teacher? Good for you, cant wait to see your kids name on a head stone in the military cemetery when he’s 21 after failing college because his daddy stopped doing his homework.”
Mr. Pavlicek: There are readers and posters to this site who have served in the military, and, its distinctly possible that there are readers and posters to this site who have had a family member die in service to our country. You do their service and deaths no honor by using your freedom of speech rights to paint members of the military as failures and dropouts.
Secondly, why would you wish someone’s children dead, just to make a point in an argument (and not a very strong one at that)?
Third, while your education may not have been lacking in the arts, as you clearly see the benefit of including art in an education (and I’m not opposing you on that point), there was somewhere in your education process (which occurred somewhere other than the Midwest, I’m thinking?), where lessons about honor, history, and perhaps even debate, were sorely lacking.
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:41 am
This post is coming not from “MSPD” — my online persona. This is from a real person, and the son of a retired United States Navy Captain.
60 minutes ago, I WAS in the Fort Snelling National Cemetery, reading names on headstones and reflecting on these individuals’ service to our country in light of the events yesterday.
One day, I will be reading my Dad’s name on a headstone there as, after 32 years of service in the United States Navy which included service in Vietnam, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Persian Gulf war, and having earned multiple Legions of Merit, his desire is to have Fort Snelling be his final resting place.
I pray that they don’t pass away in service at 21, but should my sons or daughter end up with their name(s) on a headstone at Fort Snelling National Cemetery or any other military cemetery, I would consider that an honor of the highest degree and will proudly lay them to rest alongside the tens of thousands of heroes in those places.
I should be so fortunate to raise my three children in a way that inspires them to serve their country.
Stanton, wherever you are today, I would encourage you to visit a military cemetery and reflect on your words, and just what those 21 year old college “failures” have done to your and my benefit.
Peace.
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Stanton, your statement may have been the single dumbest thing I ever read here, but I will give you a bit of a pass because you were really only stealing what John Kerry said 5 years ago. It was stupid when he said it, and just as stupid now.
Whit and MSPD both posted more eloquent responses than I would ever be able to fashion, so I will only say that I echo thier statements.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Honestly, I went to Envision and have kept up on this article just to see the comments you have made throughout. The school is done. We have come to closure about the situation. Yes, you had to pay taxes. Yes, it wasn’t successful and it wasn’t expected to be saying that whoever had the dream of this school didn’t fulfill their idea or think out their plan enough before they tried to make it happen. It was a wonderful experience. There are things I wish were different, but my experience will be with me forever. However, all of you that kept on criticizing every move we made was slightly harsh. Any high school student will have misspelled a few words or may not have the best grammar, but that isn’t Envision to blame. It’s overall because of texting or facebook. It is sad that you continued to talk down upon fellow Envision folks. You almost became a gang of “adults” that attacked us. I am sorry you viewed it as a waste, but in our minds it wasn’t and I am thankful for the time I had there. I wish you all would have looked at what the students got out of it rather than your money. Does money bring TRUE happiness? No, but that school did. For several of us. I guess my point is, I understand why you all were frustrated with the program, but I wish you would have taken time to see what we were getting out of it truthfully rather than just thinking we were a bunch of “nobody’s”. If you saw our last performance, you would have seen our honest opinion and then seen that even though it was heartbreaking for us, we came to closure about the fact our time was up. We appreciated the time we had though.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Just for the record, it’s spelled “nobodies”.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Exactly my point. You are always pointing out what’s wrong.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
*woosh*
September 13th, 2011 at 8:25 am
Why do these idiots think they are so much more important than any other kid? It is even more amusing that they try to justify their poor grammar by blaming their cell phones.
Good luck 2 U in life you poorly educated doofuses.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:33 am
lefty, don’t blame the students–blame the educators and parents. They are of a generation where they have been told their entire lives that they are special and will do great things. Unfortunately because it started at such a young age this group actually believes it.
They were provided an inadequate education at very high cost to the taxpayer. What do they reply with most often? They had fun and they enjoyed it! I’m glad that the taxpayers exist to fund fun and enjoyable learning experiences for children instead of rigorous and educational experiences like we all expected.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:34 am
L00K @T D@ B!G P!CTUR3 instead of thinking we suck and have no future. Don’t worry, we won’t be ending up like you in the future. We will have pursued our dreams and have become very successful.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:36 am
Actress E, since you refuse to check your e-mail: your username is “Actress E”, not “Actress.” If you post another comment as “Actress.” I will not approve it and it will be deleted.
Fix the username to “Actress E”.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:39 am
To you Bill, what we have learned at Envision, I am reviewing at college. The education I got there has put me ahead than my fellow students in the classes at school, so we did learn several things. It wasn’t just all fun and games, we did a lot of hard work, but because we love it so much we had a lot of fun while working. Don’t use generation because then you are summarizing for all high school students and I don’t think that is what you are trying to fight here. You are pointing out the students of Envision (as usual) and what you are trying to prove is incorrect.
ACTRESS E
September 13th, 2011 at 8:40 am
Actress E,
Don’t pigeonhole us. Some of us here have chased our dreams and become remarkable failures. Some of us have become successful.
Some of you suck. Some of you will become have huge success. It is unfortunate that those of you that went to your dumb school are behind the 8 ball from the start. You clearly are one that is going to have to work harder to get up to speed with kids that went to a real school.
lefty
September 13th, 2011 at 8:45 am
“Don’t pigeonhole us?” What have you ben doing the entire time on this article? Pigeonholing every single person that had something to do with Envision…
Envision was with Burnsville High School, so we still got the academics in. I “clearly” have a bright future ahead of me. I am in college and am doing wonderful in it, and Envision AND BHS has helped me.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:46 am
Actress E, I’m glad that you are reviewing participation and vocabulary at a local community college. Being that I worked in the system for several years I am quite familiar with the lower level education you are likely to receive there as opposed to a large university. Especially if you tested in coursework meant to be remedial–something a large percentage of incoming freshman at local community colleges happen to do.
While I’m not going to say you fall into this category, based on my extensive experience in the local community college world I would be willing to bet that most of your fellow students are just as ill-prepared as you are to begin the college experience.
But hey, those 120 points you earned for participation were probably well worth the review.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:50 am
So now you creep to find out what college I go to? That’s interesting. You don’t know my situation with what college I chose to go to. You have absolutely no right judging me based on the fact I’m going to a community college. I am saving a lot of money and will be transferring to a University. I get the same education, but save my money and am not partying like every other college student. I think that is more of a positive decision than a negative one.
September 13th, 2011 at 8:55 am
I don’t think Bill is characterizing your school incorrectly. Kids that don’t do well in high school are well suited to go to a community college to try to get their grades up so that they can go to a real college in a few years.
There is a small percentage that did really great in high school that use the cost reasoning like you did, but it is hardly the norm. The reality is that community colleges don’t really cost that much more than a real college if one were to be academically accepted and see what kind of “scholarship” opportunities are available to someone who scored good grades, etc. at a real high school.
Nice try Actress E.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Again, you do not know my situation. Proving my point, you always point out what we do “wrong”. Well, you have done wrong in your life as well at some point. Did you always have people criticizing you for everything and telling you how much of a failure you were? Now, you must be taking it out on anybody you can.
My point of my post in the first place was to share that I understood your view of having to pay the taxes, but that the school meant something to us and that I didn’t think it was mature to keep fighting about it over an article. Proving my point AGAIN, you continued to do so.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Creep? You’re kidding right? I made an educated guess and was right. The number of students going to local community colleges in Minnesota is very high–especially those who come from arts magnets with less than rigorous academic standards.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:03 am
According to pervious posts, you all were in the creeping department earlier as well. Read my previous post of how I did not want to start a fight, just putting my opinion about all of the posts on here.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:05 am
Thank god you’re reviewing that vocabulary because permeable posts are not worth their weight in water.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:06 am
Previous posts about creeping? Does that mean you have used another username here before? Which was that?
September 13th, 2011 at 9:08 am
If you read my post, it says read my previous post about how I did not want to start a fight. Which was the post right before with the same username.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:11 am
I try not to. I may find another grammatical or spelling error which will further prove my point that your expensive, taxpayer-funded education was of little value.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:13 am
You seem to not try very hard. You have your opinion of the school, I have mine. Everyone has different views, but you do not need to let your ego get to you in thinking you are correct. Just accept the fact of others views and let it be.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:14 am
If you didn’t want to start a fight, you probably should not have pigeonholed the commenters here as “unsuccessful”.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am
I simply stated the fact that everybody has messed up at some point in their lives and was allowing you to reflect on them.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Yeah Bill, stop being so pervy.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Nah, you just make it super easy. But go ahead and tell me what fun you had, it makes me forget your terrible grammar and spelling.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:33 am
I’m on the fence…who do we think Actress E is going to nail at the 10-year Envision Reunion?
Andrew Hjermstad: On the plus side, he knows who Thomas Edison was which means he was probably Envision’s valedictorian. But, outside of spiking a chick’s mead at the Renaissance Festival, a kid that argues trochees and spondees starting a soliloquy couldn’t possibly get laid. I’m not sure Actress E would go for a virgin with what has to be a miniscule penis.
Mikal Steele…the good: Doesn’t come across as a pantywaist like Hjermsad.
Bad: Current career as receptionist at a hair salon not exactly going to get her that vacation home in Fiji some day if things go long-term. Also, curious fascination with keratin hair products indicates he’s quite possibly batting for the other team, so to speak.
Stanton Pavlicek: What’s not to like?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/diversey/4875945302/in/set-72157624563052901
Well, except knowing that after their one-night stand, Actress E would have to buy him coffee and an Egg McMuffin because his Fringe Festival art director wage is only enough to gas up the 87 Topaz and get back to his parents’ basement in Morris, MN.
What’s that? How dare I Google these people and expose what Bill was suggesting (that the Envision syllabus wasn’t exactly going to set these people up for success)??
Let me remind “thee” of the invitation from Mikal Steele himself:
September 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am
This is the single funniest thing I have ever, in my entire life, read on the Internet. MSPD wins.
September 13th, 2011 at 9:42 am
MSPD’s post is funny because Actress E is considered an adult now, even though she has the grammar skills of an 8 year old.
September 13th, 2011 at 10:57 am
That is horrible to say things like that about people you don’t even know. Grow up.
September 13th, 2011 at 11:07 am
I think MSPD is just basically saying that those dudes would do you. It is quite complimentary.
September 13th, 2011 at 11:31 am
Andrew Hjermstad facebook profile picture is amazing. He could not possibly look more exactly like I thought he would look like than he does. Oh my fucking god.
September 13th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
Actress E, you want to see “horrible things to say about people you don’t even know”? Scroll up and re-read comment #18.
Your classmate threw down a challenge, and I’m happy to take him up on it. Where is he now?
By the way, surely such a fine theatrical academy such as Envision taught you a unit on satire, right? How quickly you forgot.
You need to bring your A-game here, Actress E.
September 13th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
You mean her C- game, right?
September 13th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Actually I think she brought her trolling (as in internet troll – not anything sinister, salacious, capricious, sexist, or seditious) game here.
September 13th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
At Envision, a C is an A.
You are NOT getting the same education at a community college that you would get at a 4-year institution. Transfer sooner rather than later, it will change your life in a way a crap education at Envision and Normandale ever could.
September 13th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
@dm
Why the hate for people who attend Normandale? I’ve known plenty of people who started at a CC and went on to greater institutions as I’m sure you have.
So much for the “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” dogma that I find here. Only if you attend the “right” college does it make you worthy I guess.
September 13th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
I too know plenty of people who have started at community colleges (Normandale was just an example). They graduated 6 years after transferring and re-taking a bunch of their classes.
There’s nothing wrong with community college done right. So very few do it right. My guess is, coming from a sub-standard education at Envision, these students aren’t prepared to do it right.
It is not, however, going to enable someone to “get the same education, but save my money” as Actress E claimed. It’s not the same.
September 13th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
I worked in the community college system for years. I think it’s a great way to save money but you will definitely not get the same level of education you will elsewhere. Without requiring terminal degrees for instructors, you get a level of education which may not be as high of a caliber as a four-year. However, if you pick and choose carefully and utilize PSEO you can graduate early and for a lot less money than anywhere else.
But as DM said, many utilize the community college because they do not have the grades or scores to get into the four-years. In fact, that’s the vast majority. While they have marketed themselves as the inexpensive alternative, they’re simply the “Everyone told me to go to college and this is where I can get in,” option instead.
September 13th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
So an instructor without an PHD is somewhat less worthy than your run-of-the-mill Masters or (God forbid) a B.S. degree instructor?
Yes I realize Normandale isn’t Harvard but there have been some studies that indicate that getting a degree these days isn’t what it’s cracked up to be than in the past.
Especially if you have a mountain of school loan debt to pay off starting 6 months after you graduate and can only find a job at Color Tile that pays $10.00 an hour.
September 13th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
As with everything it depends on the instructor. And yes, we’ve previously discussed the pros and cons of a college degree and many of these same arguments came up (I believe I advocated for people to spend less money and go to CC if they couldn’t afford it).
But at the end of the day, you’re going to save some, but not enough money by going that route when compared with the overall. In the grand scheme you’re still going to be riddled with debt and possibly have a longer college experience due to your less than stellar academic career.
September 13th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
I think the big perception that these kids have is that they think they can take two years of inferior education, apply at the U of M or wherever and have all those cheap credits transfer to the U and they are sitting as Juniors at a highly accredited university.
It does not work that way.
September 14th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
#68 MSPD: Not cool to publicly ridicule teenagers by name, speculate about supposed sexual orientation, and ponder hypothetical penis size. Don’t know why I waited to comment on this. These are kids.
September 15th, 2011 at 8:04 am
LL Reader, no they’re not, they are now legal adults, who exposed their own names on the internet. MSPD did nothing wrong.
September 15th, 2011 at 8:15 am
(shaking head)
These are not kids. They are adults.
Besides that, if you can’t perceive the satirical humor in my post (and most of my 1,400+ posts on here), you are as clueless as these Envision grads are proving themselves.
September 15th, 2011 at 8:22 am
MSPD,
If you said that shit to my 19 year old girl, I think I would let her know it’s not a good idea to try to get into a pissing match with individuals with a hell of a lot more education and experience than she has.
That said, she went to a real high school and is probably smart enough to figure that out for herself.
I have no issue with your really funny post.
September 15th, 2011 at 8:27 am
I certainly didn’t consider my kids when they were 18 to be adults even though the law said they that they were. Those two are now in their early twenties and I still think that they are so green. My 17 1/2 can’t wait to be an adult in 6 months. Ha!
September 15th, 2011 at 8:28 am
Plus, lefty, I’m sure your daughter is nailing much more awesome dudes than these chumbelones at her high school reunion.
(and…yeah…I have a daughter. I’m going to pay for this bad ju-ju some day. Oh well)
September 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am
Oh yeah, she is a total hockey player elitist, but just kissing and romantic walks holding hands.