According to this article which appeared in ABC Newspapers, Coon Rapids’ ordinance mandating gas stations only allow prepay at the pump to eliminate drive-offs and thus reduce police calls went into effect on August 1st. Gas station owners strongly oppose the ordinance believing it will severely reduce their profits by increasing credit card fees and may even cause patrons to utilize stores outside the city’s borders due to convenience factors.
From the article:
Under the ordinance, which was adopted by a 5-2 vote of the Coon Rapids City Council Feb. 21 with an Aug. 1 start date, prepayment can include paying by credit card at the pump, or going inside and paying cash before the pump is turned on.
[...]
Police Chief Brad Wise, who initiated the prepay ordinance as a crime prevention tool to minimize the number of no-pay/gas drive offs from Coon Rapids retail fuel businesses – 492 in 2010 and 481 in 2011 – sent a letter to all gas station owner-operators in the city earlier this month to remind them of the impending ordinance start date and urging them to be in compliance.
While the new law has already reduced the number of drive-offs being reported, it’s not because many gas stations have implemented the required provisions of the ordinance in advance, according to the Chief of Police it’s because gas stations have simply stopped reporting the violations (42 have been reported in 2012 as opposed to 310 for the same timeframe last year). While the end result is exactly what the Chief of Police wanted when he proposed the ordinance, it is pretty clear that gas station owners are not exercising their rights as taxpaying businesses due to their reluctance to accept the ordinance.
However, the high fees associated with more mandated credit card transactions at the pump are the least of the concerns. There is also the inconvenience to the customer. I routinely pump first and pay inside so that the charge is immediately posted to my bank account rather than having to wait for the $1 authorization charge to clear and the real amount post. This makes it easier to track exactly how much was spent through online banking rather than having to keep track of receipts. However, some people really don’t know how much they plan to pump and then must go inside and prepay for an amount which won’t fill the tank or will need to make several trips into the stores to finalize the payment–something which can create slower moving lines and more work on the staff.
Overall this seems like an ordinance which may be good for public safety departments but it weighs heavily on gas station owners and adds an extra inconvenience for the thousands of good faith customers who don’t steal gas because ~500 people feel like shoplifting from gas stations.
While this ordinance wasn’t enacted in the South Metro, would you support if it were? How do you pay when you’re at a gas station? Do you authorize your transaction or do you like to go inside to pay afterward? Do you think that the number of calls for service in a city with a population in excess of 60,000 is something which needed to be controlled by ordinance possibly at additional expense of businesses who already pay taxes for police coverage? Whatever you have to say about this one go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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August 2nd, 2012 at 7:51 am
When I first saw this story my thought was, “there are still places that let you pump before you pay?” Followed by, “who does that?” Apparently Bill does that.
I haven’t pumped gas and then paid in probably ten years. I don’t always use a credit card either. I know how much gas I need to put in my car and what that costs approximately. Put in $40 and I’m good.
August 2nd, 2012 at 7:58 am
Kassie, gas prices fluctuate so much that today I could pay $42 for a full tank and tomorrow $39. I also use coupons from Cub at Holiday which further complicates the matter.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:07 am
Well, if you are using coupons, then I can’t help you. I guess I also didn’t know that coupons for gas existed. I live in a very sheltered world it seems.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:08 am
I live in that area and used to fill up at Coon Rapids stations fairly often. As of Aug. 1, never again. I’m a cash-paying customer (I know, I’m old) and I resent being treated like a potential criminal just so the Coon Rapids police chief won’t be “bothered” by drive-off reports. The police should enforce the law, not write it.
They have lost my business because of this law. That’s good news for nearby Blaine stations.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:09 am
Point of clarification: it’s an city ordinance, not a law. But you get my point.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:18 am
Kassie, I suppose if you don’t shop at Cub (or Rainbow when they were doing a similar promotion–maybe they still do, I don’t shop there) you wouldn’t know. But considering it saves me several dollars on every fill up there is no reason I wouldn’t use them (I generally save between .27 and .30/gallon each time).
I also notice MANY people at the gas stations I use pumping and going inside to buy other items in one transaction (drinks, snacks, cigarettes) rather than paying at the pump and then going inside and making another charge.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:19 am
I do both so it wouldn’t impact me that much. If I have Cub/Holiday coupons, I pay inside. No coupons, I almost always pay at the pump. The margin that convenience stores make at the pumps is less than what they make from selling you pop, coffee and the various other things you find inside. As a result, I can see why they would be opposed to the ordinance.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:24 am
Yep, it certainly sounds like this was for the benefit of the police department more than anything else. Boo! One alternative to the ordinance would be for the police to give each station 5 (or whatever) “free” calls a month. Or perhaps base the number on the volume of gallons sold. I am not endorsing this, but I do think that IF the police chief thinks cops are going to stations too frequently, it is a better approach than banning pump-first, pay-later.
As to my own practice, I will usually drive away from a station if I pull up and notice that it doesn’t allow for pay at the pump.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:25 am
Prepay is BS. First I refuse to pay at the pump with plastic. Not only is the user of plastic subject to the “block and hold” fee by the credit card companies but additional fees as well. There is always the threat of scam scanners attached to the pumps as was reported in the local news several weeks ago. Prepay using cash can and does create frustration caused by multiple trips inside the store.
The attached link spells out issues using plastic at the pump.
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/gas-price-increase-debit-credit-cards-block-hold-1277.php
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:39 am
Will,
I have never paid one single additional fee for using a card at the pump. I think you need to change banks or credit card companies.
I pay at the pump almost every time, even if I am going in to get something from the store just because I don’t want to wait to get “authorized” after hitting “pay inside” button. It takes a buck from my account, and then the 55 bucks or whatever shows up a few days later. All good. Nobody has ever stolen my card information and since I check my account regularly, I am not in danger of being a victim of credit card theft even if they did.
All that said, the ordinance is silly. I am totally cool if a store were to move to that policy to eliminate theft, but having it forced on them seems a bit over the top.
People who are caught stealing gas should be forced to work the overnight at the gas station they stole from for a couple of weeks. That will deter them for sure.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:48 am
Lefty, many stations have a discount for paying cash. I was at one last week and I saved 5c/gallon.
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:51 am
Wow. 75 cents. Where do I sign up?
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:55 am
The point was you may have been charged fees.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:08 am
Technically, that is against the merchant agreement with the card company, or at least it used to be.
I will be more clear. I don’t like to co-mingle with people who go inside gas stations, so fee or not, I win.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:08 am
I would think it would make more sense to change the reporting process than to inconvenience the businesses and citizens that the police are supposed to be serving. Maybe some sort of daily report with plate numbers & car descriptions that can be faxed or emailed each night?
I was in New York last week. Many of the gas stations there are giving a ten cent per gallon discount for paying with cash.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:11 am
“Ideal” solution? Maybe not. But I’m OK with it. It seems like a fairly common sense compromise to solve a problem.
A couple of thoughts:
- How many times do you hear someone complaining about slow police response or a cop working on a seemingly insignificant task say, “don’t the cops have bigger things to focus on than….?” It seems to me like this is a situation where I’d rather have police resources working on more important things than tracking down drive-offs.
- Along those lines, let’s say a drive-off/petty crime takes an hour to respond to start-to-finish, write the report, etc. If an officer works an 8 to 10-hour shift (I don’t really know), you are talking about a constant stream (500 in a year is nearly 2x per day) of petty issues taking cops off the streets and reducing your city’s law enforcement productivity by upwards of 10%. I’d rather they have the resources to speed up investigations and response.
People are claiming inconvenience, but then saying they will go to the next town over to fill up. Okay.
And this is where I’ll probably get flamed, but is having to walk to and from your car twice instead of once REALLY that much of an inconvenience? Is it really that bothersome to wait a few hours for a placeholder fee to come off your bank account (same thing that happens at hotels, restaurants, bars, and so on)?
Again, a seemingly small compromise to solve an issue.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:15 am
I don’t know for sure but from police reports I’ve read of drive-offs, it’s a phone call to the registered owner of the vehicle and telling them to pay. Generally the person has some excuse like they forgot their wallet and intended to go back later and pay (just a FYI if you forget your wallet just go inside and tell the that, they’ll work it out w/you) or they thought they scanned their card but really forgot and should have paid inside.
I can’t imagine it takes an hour to do that but maybe it does. Even so, there are officers which don’t respond to real crime and sit in the office. This could easily be handled by those officers they have on staff which aren’t out running around. Hell, the Chief of Police could be doing it instead of writing ridiculous ordinances which are self-serving instead of serving the MAJORITY of the public.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:17 am
It is legal to give a discount for cash, but it is not legal to charge extra for credit card use.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:17 am
First off, the name Coon Rapids. Really? This sounds like a town in the Dukes of Hazzard.
310 calls a year doesn’t seem that bad to me. According to the CR police website, they handle 43,000 calls a year. That’s .7% of their calls. Again, really?
Most stations I go to appear to be writing down license numbers of the cars that don’t pre pay (they even use binoculars). So if a cop gets a drive off call, with the license number, it would seem like a pretty easy case to handle. Someone that steals gas is likely to have warrants or will be in possession of something illegal. So a simple drive off call might be seen as an opportunity to get a bad guy off the streets.
The CR police should focus on doing their jobs rather than coming up with bogus ordinances that drive business out of their city.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:46 am
NWR, you’d have to look at the total number of calls in 2011 and 2010 and use the ~500 calls for drive-offs from that time to come up with an accurate percentage, but you’re right, it still won’t be that many.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:53 am
If there’s a police report, it took some time to write. So let’s say 30 minutes total. Add to that the burden on the City from the “that was my car but I wasn’t driving” and other hassles and staff involved when people protest their ticket or fine.
Whatever it is (and I’m sure we could nitpick the details ad nauseum), in my opinion it’s not perfect, but it’s a good solution with more upside than “inconvenience”.
August 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 am
Funny…when I moved here from the shadow of the Mason-Dixon line, it took me a LONG time to get used to hearing Coon Rapids. Where I grew up, “coon” was as derogatory as (and used interchangeably with) “nigger”. It wasn’t in my vernacular, but when someone said it, it gave me pause as though they had said “Gook Rapids” or something like that (and I get that’s not the same, but it was the same kind of instant “huh?!?”)
Just kind of an off-putting name if you ever lived in or around the south.
August 2nd, 2012 at 10:12 am
Pre-pay is a pain. I would use other cities gas stations before pre-paying in my burb.
I think the bigger story is, why are police services being curtailed (and tax-paying citizens inconvenienced), and what other “essential” government services are being funded at the expense of police (and probably fire as well)?
August 2nd, 2012 at 10:49 am
If this was such a problem for the police department, is it an option for them to refuse to respond to drive-offs at gas stations that don’t require pre-pay? While I don’t like the idea of the police department not responding to crimes, I prefer that option to the city requiring businesses to run differently because they just don’t like how the business is running.
I have a friend who manages a Kwik Trip. He called me up out of the blue a year or so ago asking if I knew so-and-so. I did and he said that person had driven off from his gas station without paying that morning. Rather than involve the police, he did a license plate check, got the guy’s name, found him on Facebook and saw that I was friends with the guy. I called the guy and he had gone into the station while his tank was filling up, bought a drink and a snack, but forgot to tell the cashier to ring up his tank of gas. He returned to his car and drove off none the wiser.
While I’m guessing most drive-offs aren’t accidental, I imagine a number of them are. I agree with the Coon Rapids PD that tracking these guys down probably isn’t the best use of their time. That said, there are better ways of reducing their call volumes than changing the city ordinance.
August 2nd, 2012 at 11:12 am
I’ve got this.
Gas stations should be set like rental car places with those spike strip things popping up behind you when you drive in and then a drive up pay booth with another spike strip that goes down after you have paid.
I think the government should pay for that with the savings they get not having gas theft crime to attend to.
You’re welcome world.
lefty
August 2nd, 2012 at 11:23 am
lefty, you must be rolling in “dough”[:)] however you missed the point completely. And you worked at a bank???? We’ve had this discussion before. I’m happy that you want your card company to “borrow” $55 from you, at NO interest, for a period of 72 hours and up to 5 business days and invest in 24 hour global money market funds.
August 2nd, 2012 at 11:35 am
This should be more of a civil matter then criminal.
Indeed, I believe the state legislature passed a law this year making it easier to collect from people who drive off (via a collection agency) then it was in the past.
August 2nd, 2012 at 11:53 am
lefty, what the hell are you talking about? Spike strips and payment booths? You’re on crack, dude.
Clearly the answer is autocar.
Signed,
lefty of a year ago
August 2nd, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Actually the answer would be to allow convenience stores to sell beer. Then people would want to go inside and pay.
August 2nd, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Will,
You are a crackpot.
1. My bank only pends $1.00 for a $55 transaction.
b. The $55 usually shows up the very next day if I purchased gas during the day, the following day if I purchased it in the evening.
iii. At no time has the bank “tied up” my ability to use money, in fact it gives me money in advance for free at no interest since I could load up on $55 worth of gas with $1.22 in my account the day before payday if I wanted to.
IV. Consumer banks do not tie up customer pending funds in 24 hour global money market investments. That is just fucking stupid and you need to take the foil off of your head.
E. My gas solution is quite valid for auto-cars and non auto-cars alike. Auto-cars can get flat tires just like cars from the past.
$$$$$$. Even if gas stations could sell beer, the kind of beer would suck and only losers and idiots would still go in there just like now. I will not subject myself to being in the same room as those people.
August 2nd, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Lefty,
In my vast experience buying beer in convenience stores in other states that aren’t absolutely insane, they stock what people buy: craft and/or local beers in addition to the mass market garbage.
August 2nd, 2012 at 1:46 pm
(coffee spitting on monitor)
I thought auto-cars (sorry for omitting the hyphen earlier) were like the light rail or gondola rides where the zip along on some sort of cable or track or something. I didn’t know you still had to put gas in them.
In my utopia, the auto-car would kind of float magically on a puff of air and wouldn’t require gas, gas stations, mingling with unkempt people in gas stations, or any of the massive, massive inconveniences (apparently) involved with adding 120 seconds and 50 whole steps to one’s day at a Kwik Trip.
August 2nd, 2012 at 1:50 pm
On the question of discounts for cash/surcharges for credit cards … It used to be that the merchant agreements of the major credit cards would allow for cash discounts, but prohibit surcharges for card use. They would also forbid merchants from imposing a minimum-purchase requirement for paying with a card.
In the world of Dodd Frank, I’m not sure if that has changed.
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:11 pm
It bums me out that Will never responds to me after I have schooled him.
I wonder if he has ever worked at a bank. I doubt it. He is right about the part where I have worked at one.
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Gas stations want you IN THE DOOR to spend money on other things. The margin on gas is minimal. Profit is made off convenience items. That’s why they are upset.
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:49 pm
We need to get over the pre-pay thing. It’s pretty much standard everywhere else in the country I’ve ever been or lived. I remember thinking it strange when I first saw it in California, SEVENTEEN years ago.
If you manage your money so poorly that a $1 holding fee by your credit card company hurts you, then you have bigger issues than when and where you pay for your gas.
You are not charged any transaction fees for using your credit card, the merchant is. Someone will surely argue that we are eventually paying for those fees in the price of merchandise inside the store, but come on. There are so many factors in the pricing of merchandise we can’t blame it on one thing.
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:49 pm
…back on topic… I use a card every time I fill up. The card I use kicks back 3% to me on all gas purchases. 90% of my gas purchases are at Costco, the price per gallon is usually 20 cents less than the chains. With a 3% kickback it is often 30 cents/gallon less than the chains. I like it…
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Oh, and I always pay for my gas at the pump, and typically if I can’t, I’ll drive off and go to another station. If I do need something inside, I still pay at the pump and do another transaction inside.
August 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 pm
dm, you’re looking at the $1 charge the wrong way. It’s not the $1 charge that puts you over, it’s the pending $40 charge that does. And if you have to make a large purchase on your card and you look at the balance thinking you have $1000 in there but really you have $960 and you make a $1000 charge, that’s where the problem occurs.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 pm
That is only a problem for people who do not pay attention to how much money they are spending. My kids learned not to trust their online banking balances when they were 16 years plus one day old.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 pm
And at 16 they don’t have a significant other who has access to their accounts.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Billif the $40 charge is what I paid, it should be pending and I should account for it. I have never had a holding fee more than $1.
Regarding your 960 v 1000 argument, if you’re spending your money that close to the budgetary line, I maintain you’re not managing it well. Our minimum balance is never that close to the line, and I check our accts daily. If it got that low, I would immediately give Husband a heads up s there aero excuses for not being aware of your spending.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 pm
dm, you can come up with example after example which will not apply to everyone.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:43 pm
I didn’t give any examples. Though lots of typos, danged iPad. What are you referring to?
If you are spending 1000 on something and there’s only 1000ish in your account, you should probably re-look at why you’re spending that 1K. I can’t think of any emergency purchase of that size where they wouldn’t work with you on paying 1/2 and half or something so you don’t overdraw yourself over cash.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:47 pm
It’s called a check register. They even have them for the computers now.
August 2nd, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Yup and it’s 2012, no one uses them anymore. Well, except old people like you and C&V.
August 2nd, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Would someone please step in here and let Bill know that dm and I have won?
August 2nd, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Old is good! Look at the alternative!
August 2nd, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Being dead does suck.
August 2nd, 2012 at 6:24 pm
Where are the full service stations. They can pump the gas and take payment without even having to get out of the car. I guess we did need excercise after buying the Giant slurpees at 7-11
August 2nd, 2012 at 8:21 pm
I think there’s a full service station on Old Shakopee Road in Bloomington, IIRC.
I usually do pay at the pump anyway, unless I have coupons. But I agree with the others who said that the stations are could see a hit on their sales of the higher-margin items that bring in the money if fewer people are going into the store. They don’t really make money on gas. I think that could hurt them more than the extra processing fees, since I am guessing many of these customers are already using plastic.
August 2nd, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Stupid police chief… increased credit card theft is the result of this no doubt. And yes, Cub and Holiday will need a different way to do their deal in that city apparently. Rainbow/Roundy’s do something a little different with Shell stations using some sort of plastic card that tracks something and you swipe in the pump.
August 3rd, 2012 at 8:04 am
I wouldn’t support such an ordinance in the south metro. It should be the owners choice how their product is purchased and paid for. As for the expense to the community, as police chief, I’d bring it to my City Council and state here is the issue, do we have permission to be non-responsive to these calls due to workload? The owners can then take their chances. End of story…
As far as holding fees, etc… If you are that close to your credit limit this is an issue, you’ve got much bigger budgetary issues to worry about. Why someone would ever worry about a fee that appears and then dissappears is beyond me. I’ve been charging gas at the pump for twenty plus years and its never been an issue. (I use a credit card that gives 5% cash back for gas purchases and pay the balance in full every month – Pen Fed Cash Rewards for anyone whose interested…) Makes a 5 cent per gallon cash discount look meager these days…
August 3rd, 2012 at 9:25 am
Sometimes the drive-offs are the fault of the gas station’s pay at the pump system. Once in a hurry, I swiped my card. When the pump then indicated I should select my fuel grade, lift the handle, and pump my gas, I did so. I finished pumping my gas, and left, thinking nothing of it. I didn’t really care if I got a receipt that day (in a hurry), so I didn’t wait around. 45 minutes later, there was a cop at my door. I went back and paid the bill. Since then, I pay attention, because at Holiday, there is no indication if your card is not read properly, or if the swipe does not go through. It just tells you to start pumping gas, leaving you to assume that you are being charged to your card. Granted, normally, it will ask if you are going to want a receipt or a car wash, but if in a hurry, I don’t really notice the absence of those questions. I have pointed this issue out to Holiday’s customer service on several occassions, and received no response. I don’t know that it matters though, on those occassions you do want a receipt, the pump isn’t printing them and you have to go inside anyway.
August 4th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
If I pay at the pump I always ask for a receipt and go inside and get one if one is not available. This due to the fact that the pumps are not consistent in their operation and I want a receipt if a cop tries to say I didn’t pay.
While not an issue when I was 16-20 (debit cards didn’t exist then and you always went in to pay) if I was the same age and income now as I was then I simply would just prepay. Irritating, but hey, at that income level I probably didn’t have an extra $30 sitting in the bank for them to attach.
August 8th, 2012 at 8:20 am
Until the last week or two when I’ve had cash to spend vs. plastic, I have rarely ever used pre-pay. It’s a pain in my ass and takes longer to get in and out.
Having to pre-pay makes me feel like I’m some degenerate who cannot be trusted, and honestly, I won’t do it again based on that principle.
Complete contrast, up north last weekend, I went to pre-pay (after doing that all from the cities) and was told “Oh, we don’t pre-pay here, just come inside when you’re done”
THANK THE F&CKING LORD I can still be trusted to pump gas, and then pay for it. Reason #956,256 I can’t wait to leave the cities.
You don’t have to pre-pay before you enter Target or Cub for what you plan to buy.
We’re adults, lets be treated like adults. If there is a small group who cannot be responsible, let the law deal with them, and put them in jail vs. making the honest people feel like criminals.