Last week’s poll asked what’s your favorite Olympic sport. While the results were odd compared with all other polls, with most respondents replying “N/A”, the next most popular option was “Swimming”. However, the biggest news so far this Olympics is how NBC is handling the tape delays and online availability of the Olympics. Have you had any issues with it or would you like to have seen that all handled better?
This week’s poll question comes from an encounter The Wife had at the Mall of America yesterday. What appears below are her words:
- The Wife was feeding The Baby a bottle while sitting on a bench at the park in MoA. A woman, wearing a mall walker shirt, stopped suddenly and got very close to The Wife and The Baby and started touching and stroking The Baby’s arm while saying what a cute baby she was. The degree to which she was invading The Wife’s personal space and the way she immediately started touching The Baby had The Wife, at first, believe this woman may have been mentally ill. For a split second The Wife waited for the woman who was with her and waiting a few feet away to apologize and tell her she shouldn’t touch a baby without permission, thinking the other person was a caregiver of some type. When this didn’t happen, The Wife realized the woman was not mentally ill and she said, “Please don’t touch a baby you don’t know.” The woman apologized but she apparently did not seem particularly perturbed that The Wife had chastised her for being rude and invading someone else’s personal space or their comfort level for strangers touching their child.
Here is the poll question (available on the sidebar) and the possible responses:
- If a stranger touched your baby without asking for permission would it bother you.
* Would not bother you.
* Would bother you and you would say something.
* Would bother you but you wouldn’t say anything.
Has this happened to you? Did you say anything? How did they respond? Ever experience a similar situation? Someone touching your hair to see what it felt like or touching your pregnant belly without asking if they could? Would your response to the poll depend on how old the baby was? Is it ever ok to do this? Whatever you have to say about this one go ahead and comment on and vote on the side bar and then feel free to check out our expired polls in the archive or read through the previous posts about polls here.
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August 5th, 2012 at 11:17 am
It happens all the time and doesn’t bother me. People love babies and I’m happy to share mine. He is properly immunized and any residual germs transferred to him help build his immunity. He hasn’t been sick in his life (other than spiking a fever after getting immunizations) so it doesn’t bother me. I guess if it did bother me I would try to focus on the fact that the person has good intentions and is just marveling in the newness and smallness of the precious baby. True story, people love baby Joey’s toes and always touch his feet…it makes me smile.
August 5th, 2012 at 11:43 am
Well it definitely bothers me. She’s only 6 weeks old and while she is on the normal shot schedule for our clinic she doesn’t actually start receiving any of them until her 2 month appointment. She received her Hep B shot in the hospital and that was it. So at this age I don’t want complete strangers touching her period. She is especially vulnerable to things like whooping cough and adults typically haven’t kept up on their boosters for that. When she is older I’d be okay with people touching her but that’s only if they ask first.
August 5th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
It just occurred to me that I possibly spent an hour with said baby of late and I quite literally don’t think I even saw her. I saw the container she was allegedly housed in, but I can’t actually verify there is even a baby for sure.
Assuming she was in there, I would never have thought to touch her without permission.
I am against touching without permission, unless you are a supermodel on Twitter. They are fair game for touching without permission when you meet them in real life.
August 5th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
If you were so concerned about your baby being exposed to illnesses before being immunized or having developed sufficient natural defenses… why would you go to the Mall of America?
August 5th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Twoboot,
Because most communicable disease isn’t caught by simply being in a public place. It’s from close or otherwise physical contact with a person.
August 5th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
re: stranger touching
With the recent Pertussis concerns, I have every intention of saying something to anyone who touches my baby without permission, whether they be mentally challenged or not. It doesn’t have to be said meanly, but infants are not vaccinated yet, and even once their vacs start, they’re not fully vax’d until much later. So yes, I would have said something. There is a difference between taking your child out in public and strangers believing that babies are nothing more than an attraction in a petting zoo. Don’t touch people without their permission.
re: bellies
At Target the other day, I was shopping for some Aden & Anais blankets, and giggling to myself at the older women next to me complaining about the high cost of Target’s $30 diaper bags. One of them looked over at me and my belly and said “are you having a baby?” Strike one. Never ask a woman if she is pregnant. I said yes, and they asked my opinion. After we completed our conversation, one of them put her hand on my stomach and asked when I was due. After fighting the urge to put my hand on her stomach and reply in kind, I merely said “at the end of the month”. Strike two. Don’t touch a pregnant lady. Or anyone, really, without their permission. When I told her my due date she replied with “Really? That long left? And there’s only one in there? Are you sure?” Strike three. Don’t tell a pregnant lady (any lady) she looks fat, no matter how gently you couch it in terms of babies. I walked away.
August 5th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
OMG. Seriously, don’t touch ANYONE you don’t know without permission, baby or not. That’s just weird.
But I would touch a baby I did know without permission. Baby cries, mom is in the bathroom, pick baby up. That’s normal. Unless I was told not to ahead of time. Though infants creep me out and I try not to touch them until they are four or five month old anyhow.
August 5th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
I took my dog to the Uptown Art Fair today. He was touched by hundreds of people. (He’s very striking looking.) The overwhelming majority asked permission first. I would expect the same consideration be shown to a baby.
I realize the motivation may be different, as your baby probably doesn’t have the potential to rip off a face or an appendage, but geez people keeping your freaking hands to yourself please.
August 5th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
Dogs are fair game if the owner allows you close enough to touch them, especially if you bring them to an art fair, or any kind of fair I suppose.
Ozzie, you’re sort of crazy to think a dog deserves the same respect as a baby human.
August 5th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Usually dogs come up to people, which in my opinion, is fair game. If you’re going to let a dog sniff a person they should be able to touch them back.
August 5th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
I reiterate Kassie’s sentiment. You really shouldn’t touch anyone without permission, regardless of age. I’m not sure why people tend to forget the first lesson learned in preschool, keep your hands to yourself.
Oh, and I always ask before petting strange dogs. You never know if they’re not good with strangers and prone to biting.
August 5th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
Bill +, lefty -
August 5th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
I agree with Ozzie. I would also expect people to ask for permission to touch my dog as well, it’s the polite thing to do. Like he said though it is also the prudent thing to do. Having worked with literally hundreds of dogs when I was in high school and college I can tell you that they can have some pretty specific triggers that take them from being a sweet approachable dog to snapping at your fingers. Anything from being the wrong gender, being a child versus an adult or touching a very particular spot on the dogs head. The dog can be totally fine, well behaved and sweet as can be otherwise. So I would never touch a dog without permission either for both those reasons.
August 6th, 2012 at 12:05 am
Lefty, perhaps I wasn’t clear.
My point was, strangers usually ask permission to touch my dog. They should have at least that much respect for a baby. I think it’s backwards to ask permission to touch a dog but not a baby.
I did not say I “think a dog deserves the same respect as a baby human.” Please don’t try to put words in my mouth.
August 6th, 2012 at 9:07 am
I’m just glad I don’t have a newborn or a dog and, I pray, won’t ever again. Problem solved.
OK…kidding aside, it’s just one of those areas where I think we’re in a less-carefree era and, combined with a decline in thoughtfulness and consideration, this kind of thing causes more friction. I wholeheartedly support politely saying, “please don’t touch my kid” and the sentiment to leave your hands off others.
For me personally, I’m almost six years removed from having a newborn, but I can’t recall any time I recoiled at a stranger touching my kids in public. The newborn was constantly equipped with a supply of diaper wipes — if I was ever concerned, I’d just give the kid a wipedown after the encounter.
Statistically speaking, given an otherwise healthy baby, you are 1,000,000 times more likely to transfer a communicable disease to your baby than a stranger simply because you are handling the kid 1,000,000 times more. No matter what your level of hygiene compared to a stranger, you are constantly touching things and transporting viruses and such, then touching your baby. You can reduce the kid’s risk by ensuring good nutrition and environment (as well as vaccinations when it’s time) but unless you live in a bubble, you will have to get used to the idea that nasty crap is everywhere. To be concerned about whooping cough and whatnot from a stranger touching your kid’s arm should be very far down your list of concerns.
Bad form? Yes, absolutely.
August 6th, 2012 at 9:19 am
Not according to the doctors and media it’s not. Because whopping cough is not always obvious to an adult and may be brushed off as simply a “tickle in the throat,” they may not at all be aware that they are contagious and life threatening to an unvaccinated infant.
This is why it is a rising problem all over this country right now.
But as for the rest of your example, I wouldn’t so much be worried about a person touching my child for disease but instead because I don’t want people who don’t know my kid touching them. Ever. At all. And I would have had absolutely no problems telling them to step back and keep their fucking hands to themselves. However, I am guessing The Wife is far more approachable than I am. Especially that as soon as they appeared near me I would have given them visual cues which would have made it clear they were not to approach further.
August 6th, 2012 at 9:47 am
On a related note, I personally find it appalling that someone will walk up to a pregnant woman they do not know and start touching their belly. Hello, if they do not have a sign that says “touch my belly”, why do you think that you should? Same thing with children/babies, why would it seem ok that a stranger should touch them? If I saw a stranger touching a baby clearly not theirs (ie doesn’t talk to parents before touching baby/child before doing so), I would be inclined to call the police.
My wife and I have discussed this topic in the past after watching how people interact with pregnant women, babies. We decided that if we ever have children and encounter these types of scenarios (while pregnant or after) with strangers, we plan to make it just as awkward for them as they have made it for us. If they come up and rub my wife’s belly, I am immediately going to reach over and rub their belly and additionally ask them some health related question if they ask how long before the baby is due. Weird? Sure is, but it might get the person to think before they do it next time.
August 6th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Yeah, valid concern. Althouh, doctors and the media frequently have people disproportionately concerned about all sorts of other things (H1N1, avian flu, SARS, and so on)
My point, though, is that is that let’s say the kid drops the pacifier out of his/her mouth. You reach over, grab it (unknowingly touching the part that goes into the mouth), and shove it back in the kid’s mouth. Happens billions of times a day with babies everywhere. But…oops….you just realized you haven’t washed your hands in the previous two hours that you’ve been at the mall. Hand railings, elevator buttons, the food court table, escalator railings, the benches you sat on, products you messed with…all on your hands all the time.
That’s a much, much more likely a way to transmit germs, bacteria, viruses and so on. A stroke on the arm by a stranger vs. the hundreds of “invasive” things you yourself do to your own child should be seen in perspective.
All in all, I agree with your bottom line Bill and I’m not saying the disease transmission thing isn’t legit. People shouldn’t just be touching others’ babies without asking. To me, though, it’s not a medical issue, just one of basic consideration and manners.
August 6th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Bill, I’m with you – I’d tell them to get lost in no uncertain terms while my wife is a little more nice about it. I’ve only experienced this thus far with a mentally ill woman that was at our local park’s playground one time and asked her to leave the vicinity of where my child was playing.
I personally feel like it’s a mostly a decorum thing versus anything else. I don’t discount the germ factor, but I also recognize that my kids are probably exposed to 100x more germs at daycare than any casual touch by a stranger.
August 6th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
MSPD, I fully admit to being ultra paranoid about Pertussis and my baby. But I had Pertussis a few years ago and I wanted to die. I cannot imagine the agony my newborn would be in if he were to contract it. So yeah, it’s an issue for me. We’re in the 5th highest incidence state for Pertussis.
Bottom line is keep your hands to yourself. Pretty sure you learn it in Kindergarten.
August 6th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
I gather this is your first kid.
FWIW, Pertussis is much more likely to be spread through the air not physical contact. As much as I hate to admit it, Twoboot was onto something: If you’re really that paranoid, keep the kid out of malls, childcare centers, restaurants, stores, the supermarket, buses, trains, and any other public space where someone may cough or sneeze within 5 feet of you.
Again, not disagreeing…hands off the baby = yes. Just don’t freak out about it.
August 6th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
I would guess, and this is certainly true of everyone I know, if you are a woman, you have probably been touched without permission, whether pregnant or not. I’m not saying that men never get touched without permission (my husband’s hair is crazy naturally curly, and strangers touch it without permission all the time. Creepy), but I would guess that if someone ran the numbers it would be very common for ladies.
I don’t have any kids, but I certainly wouldn’t be O.K. with total strangers touching them if I did. Also, I think it is the polite and safe thing to do to ask permission to pet dogs.
August 6th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
People touch my babies all the time. Our 254 month old is actually starting to touch others back. We have another child who just turned 220 monhts, he’s going to a full time daycare in Alabama in three days. I know strangers will touch him there.
Flithy strangers.
Filthy strangers with social diseases who are trying to take him away from us. I worry about that too.
Mrs S did not like being touched when she was preggo.
She’s not all that fond of being touched when she isn’t either.
I don’t mind beging touched. I do mind when people accidently touch me and then feel the need to wash their hands.
Hurts a little bit.
August 6th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
I guess if it really bothers you that much it is probably best to stay home until you feel it is safe to venture out in public! :)
August 6th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Mrs. M, I think The Wife just wants people to keep their hands to themselves and based on the other comments here I would guess most other people agree with that sentiment.
Becoming agoraphobic is not exactly the solution to the problem of people acting stupid.
August 6th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
I can see grandmotherly types of an older generation with the “everyone gets to hold the precious baby” mentality touching a stranger’s baby. I also agree that times are such that this makes most parents uncomfortable to at least some degree.
Kids need exposure to germs to build their immune system. Drug companies need to periodically create panic via the media in order to boost sales.
These things said, some people will indeed catch terrible diseases; however, we can’t live in a bubble and can’t put our kids there, either.
August 6th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Becoming agoraphobic isn’t the solution to mysophobia, but it certainly alleviates some of the symptoms.
August 6th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Mrs. M, I don’t think that’s really the point.
You don’t get to touch people without permission.
And if you’re dumb enough to touch a dog without the owner’s permission, I hope you get bit.
August 6th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
This will never be an issue for me either way, but I too don’t see why people think it is okay to touch babies or pregnant women without permission. I didn’t even know this was a thing. People have weird (or no) concepts of personal space.
August 6th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Alissa is right on the money about women often being touched without permission. I also think we’re socially conditioned to be nice about it in order to not anger the offender into doing something worse.
August 7th, 2012 at 8:29 am
Last night I happened upon an advice column featuring this topic: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2011/04/baby_on_board.html
I couldn’t believe people would actually touch someone’s baby without asking but was even more surprised that some moms might be upset by strangers interacting with their babies in other ways. I’m always waving and making faces at them or laughing at them when they cry. (that’s what you’re supposed to do with a crying baby, right?)
On the flip side, I was recently at a lunch for a coworker with a new baby and having just knocked my own dog’s head on a railing when I picked him up I didn’t feel comfortable holding her newborn. I tried to be sly about it but someone called it out and now everyone thinks I hate babies. I guess you can’t win either way.
I think people are far too weird about touching/space in general though. I don’t know when I’ve been bothered that someone was in my “personal space” unless they were particularly dirty. Then again, maybe I’m just hopeful that someone might actually touch me.
August 7th, 2012 at 11:34 am
dm,
I think you’re missing my point. I’m not advocating for strangers touching a baby. I’m saying that it happens. If you don’t want your baby being touched for what ever reason, it is best to avoid situations where your baby is going to be exposed to a lot of potential “touchers.” For the record, I don’t walk around touching babies I don’t know.
The poll question asked was does it bother me and has it happened to me. Yes, it happens to me all the time, and no, it doesn’t bother me. This is not a right versus wrong debate. This is not unsolicited advice where I recommend everyone expose their children to groping in a public setting. I’m simply offering my experiences with my child in direct response to a question asked. We all do what we are comfortable doing with our children. If you can’t handle a dissenting opinion you shouldn’t ask the question.
As for the dog thing, I’m confused as to why that was addressed to me since I haven’t mentioned anything regarding animals, but yes, I do ask before I touch a dog.
August 7th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
To get an honest reaction before reading all the other comments I’ll say this. For whatever reason, it seems that Americans feel if you bring your baby out into the open, that baby is fair game for undue attention. It’s one of the reasons that newly minted single uncles are ready to take your baby for a stroll through the park, or to the mall or whatever. They get attention, typically of the female variety. Knowing that, I would generally recommend someone skittish about their kid being touched to stay home until they feel it’s safe.
I personally like my personal space and historically have only allows folks to enter that space if they were hitting on me. So I can understand the irritation at the unwanted attention.
Now having read a couple comments I’ll also throw out there. I get the immune system thing. In fact I’m a big proponent of letting kids get sick as a strategy to keeping them healthy. But when you have soo many parents that do not get their kids inoculated, and there is ongoing issues with ineffective vaccines, you really need to be wary of public spaces with the wee little ones. Whooping Cough is running rampant right now and it is very dangerous for babies (A coworker caught it right here in Apple Valley).
August 8th, 2012 at 10:57 am
I always ask people to pet their dogs, because I think that’s how I’d like to be treated when someone wants to pet my dog. Our dogs are super friendly and love to be petted, so even if someone just walks up to pet them I tolerate it and just keep an eye on the dog to make sure he’s okay.
I touched a baby without asking once when I was about 7. My parents immediately jerked my hands away and yelled at me for spreading germs to the baby. Needless to say, after that, and 20 years later, I still don’t touch babies. I love them but still paranoid (thanks, parents…).
My parents also weren’t big touchy-feely people (cultural issue), so I didn’t grow up with kisses on the forehead/cheek or hugs. As such, the only person I feel comfortable touching is my husband. If a stranger came up to me and touched me, I’d probably freak out. Even giving hugs to some of my closest friends feels weird, but over time I’ve adapted to that social necessity, at least.
So yeah, I can’t imagine someone could be so rude as to touch a pregnant woman’s belly, but I think I might adopt Alan’s strategy if it happens in the future.
August 8th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
mrs m. the dog thing wasn’t directed at you, clearly, there is a line break there differentiating it :) Just comments in general after the first.
August 8th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Someone invading my personal space and acting a bit off would bother me more than the touching. And i am far removed from baby days to accurately predict my complete response
But the best comment of all of the above is Bill’s about his unapproachability. VERY funny and oh so true – problem solved, you just need to accompany your wife everywhere. :)
And I feel dm’s pain, when I was expecting my “baby” I had people touching me, flashing two and three fingers at me and someone asked my due date when he was 6 months old ( disclosure the kid was 12 lbs 4 oz, 24 inches long at birth).
August 12th, 2012 at 7:02 am
[...] week’s poll asked about how you would react to someone touching your child without your permission. While the discussion was centered mainly around those who were concerned for the health of the [...]
August 15th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Im a mom of an almost-five-year-old so my perspective comes from a few years as a mom. No, if a nice woman came up to me and stroked my baby’s arm and said nice things it would not bother me. Women, moms, grandmothers….we like children. Some might say we’re biologically hard wired that way. :)
I’ve had nice mother and grandmotherly types approach me in Target or some other public place and say sweet things about my son and touch his arm. It absolutely does not bother me. He’s touched a cart, a store shelf, a box of spaghetti handled by ten people before him and my own hands which have touched innumerable things. I’m not worried about his arm.
But I will say the larger issue of why it doesn’t bother me. Mind you, I’m talking about an innocent brush of his arm or touch of his cheek by a fellow mom or grandma type….because one day I will be wistful and remember my child at some other child’s age and it will hurt. It will remind me of what I had and that fleeting moment of having a chance to go back in time for a few seconds will probably make my day. Someday I’m going to miss this time and wish I had it back. Those moms and grandmothers who approach babies might feel that way. Far be it from me to shun them or make them feel badly for a normal human response.
Do I feel differently about men? Teenagers? Kids? Maybe. I’m not any of those so I don’t know their reasons for wanting to be near my child and it would bother me. But the moms and grandmas? I get it. Or at least I will one day and I’m not bothered by their desire to have a tiny moment with my child with me right there.
Just my opinion a few years out from where you are on the parenting journey. I understand the concern about whooping cough. I get that. Until vaccinated I understand agree about being concerned. Afterward, what I said applies.
August 15th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
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August 15th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
“Yeah, I think you need to have Bill route you over to some of the “mommy boards” that he frequents all the time looking for baking advice to espouse this stuff. Wow.”
Well, maybe but my opinion is that it isn’t a big deal and this is why. Who cares? Aside from sickness why not let a little old lady enjoy a couple of minutes with my kid. Maybe you don’t like the delivery of how I said it? I can rephrase if you like, “Lighten up, it’s just a grandma who misses her kids.”
Is that better? Sheesh, remind me why I read here. I may only have a few comments compared to your prolific 1720 comments but no need to be rude.
August 15th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
….and who said I wrote it for Bill. I could have just as easily (and was) speaking to his wife who is reading these too. Mom to mom. Is that alright?
August 16th, 2012 at 8:55 am
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August 16th, 2012 at 8:59 am
Lefty, stop scaring the new people.
August 16th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Good lord, lefty.
Jennifer K, ignore lefty. He’s harbors a lot of bitterness from the constant stranger-touching he was subjected to as a youth (if you know what I mean).
But he is right about one thing. Speaking from the pinnacle of the All-Time Lazy Lightning Comment Count Leaderboard, I can assure you that there is absolutely no prestige or license to be rude involved.
August 16th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Lefty, what the hell are you talking about?
August 16th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
I have 5 month old twins and people CONSTANTLY want to stop and talk about them. Then about 50-60% of those people touch them. It drives me crazy. All of these stories remind me of when I was pregnant though. I was selling furniture and was about 6 months along. I greeted some customers and the husband, within 30 seconds of hello grabbed my belly with both hands and said. “How far along are you? 7-8 months?” I told him I wasn’t pregnant and walked away. Creepy guy.
August 17th, 2012 at 7:09 am
Wow…who flipped Lefty’s douchebag switch?
August 17th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Bark on , Lefty. If there’s one reason why I don’t come here as often as I’d like it’s rude comments like yours which coincidentally tend to have your username attached.
Like I said, no need to be rude. Bill’s done a great job of creating a community here and you’re doing an awesome job of spoiling it.
August 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am
I think I was getting a bit too soft lately and Jennifer K got in my way.
Carry on.
August 17th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
lefty, you spend too much time in front of the mirror ………… and yes Jennifer K you are absolutely correct regarding his insatiable appetite to be the number one self absorbing commenter.:) It’s time for lefty to start his own blog just like his twitter account…………….@minimal sextus.:):):)……………………….Sorry lefty, just had to say that.