3  0

But face it, the system won’t change as long as the teacher union Education Mn owns the legislature.

0  2

NWRG’s argument rests on a flawed assumption: standardized tests provide an accurate assessment of a teacher’s ability. But take the example of a teacher who teaches a small number of students who have been low-performing, many of whom come from poverty-stricken homes. Some of the students sometimes go hungry at night. Others witness, or are the victim of, domestic abuse. A few have supportive parents who ensure that their children do their homework and excel in school.

Those students take the same standardized tests as students in a district where most families are well-to-do, and many are quite wealthy. None of the students go hungry. A few experience problems at home, but a very large number have parents who are highly involved in their schooling.

Even assuming our standardized tests are objective, does that make them accurate measurements of teachers’ abilities? It seems quite unlikely. We should be careful not to assume that something purporting to be objective is also an accurate measure of the actions of third parties.

2  0

Until one of the kids decides to do something stupid? Face it our teachers put up with enough bullshit and babysitting because parents are more worried about who the next lucky girl will be in the bachelor.

3  0

I am sure you are content with a the three observations per year. I bet you and your fellow teachers don’t step up your game at all while being observed. And, if this subjective type or evaluation is so great, why do we give students objective tests? Shouldn’t we just have you teachers make unbiased evaluations of your students based on your observations?

In fact, this method could be used for all professions. Why should doctors take boards? Just have a teacher observe them for a couple hours and if all goes well during those few hours, they are good to practice.

You claim you don’t support many of your union’s decisions, but it appears you are first in line for the union’s kool-aid about performance based testing.

0  3

The termination process for an at will employee is much easier.

Do you really think walking around a fair getting free stuff is indicative of hard work? That’s all the Education Minnesota conference really is. Since I don’t support the union in the majority of their decisions, no, I don’t go to the conference. I also don’t think we need two days off to attend it. However, I don’t think my non-attendance has anything to do with how hard I work.

The problem with your arguments is your need to lump 100% of teachers together. Are there bad ones? yes. Are there many, many, more good ones? Yes. When I leave my job at the end of the day (never earlier than 45 minutes after my contracted end time) there are always teachers still there, working. I can think of exactly one teacher who bolts out the door the minute our contracted day is up.

No matter how “fun” a teacher makes “boring” material, the ultimate choice is up to the student.

As or how teacher’s performance be measured, I’m content with the thrice yearly observations I have done by my boss, in my classroom, judging me based on a professional framework used around the country for teacher evaluation. Two are surprise observations and one is planned. These observations “grade” me based on my lesson content, measurable objectives, behavior management, my ability to engage students in learning and finally my effective assessment of student learning. Three times every year. To me, this is a lot more accurate measure of MY ability than a one-off test dependent on a 12 or 13 year old sitting in the same room for 5 hours (two days in a row) answering multiple choice questions on figurative language and dragging and dropping items into chronological order on a computer test.

I’m done with this topic.

1  0

Isn’t being able to motivate kids to learn the characteristic of a great teacher? Can’t great teachers find ways to make boring material fun to learn? I know that I have had teachers that were able to make me study harder because of the way they taught.

You view of how managers can fire employees at will to motivate them is cute. The termination process is lengthy and complicated. In fact, the process is meant to “motivate” the employee to work up to acceptable standards so that he/she isn’t fired. The manager has to find ways to get through to an employee that may just want to do the bare minimum. I believe it would be similar to motivating a student that just doesn’t care.

As for the hard working teach myth, I simply ask you this: how many teachers go to the state conferences during MEA versus just take the days off? Less than 10,000 of the state’s 70,000 teachers attend.

How do you suggest teachers’ performance be measured?

0  0

1  0

No, there are plenty of athletes who don’t try and you still have to coach them and still have to respond to their parents; however, you’re right about the consequences related to most jobs (although I worked in the public sector and saw that there were few consequences, if any).

As far as working 65.5 hours a week, we differ greatly in our opinion of what constitutes work. While I can’t speak for your specific situation, sitting behind a desk watching kids take a test or during study hall is not work.

0  0

A teacher is teaching a group of students who have no consequences if they don’t perform. If a student fails their MCA-III test in Minnesota, there is no consequence whatsoever. Except for the teacher. The teacher, based on your misguided idea that test scores show accurate learning measurements, faces censure based on non-motivated performers results.

That doesn’t make sense. Do you KNOW how many students don’t even try on tests? In my classes, students are placed in my class based on test scores. Because they don’t try on the tests, I end up re-testing at least 1/3 of them, because they don’t need the intervention class. But they didn’t try on the test and failed it. Once they know they can get out of the class and back in an elective, they magically try on the test.

Give the students a known consequence for failing their standardized tests and THEN you can use them to measure teacher effectiveness.

Also, you’re cute thinking teachers don’t put in 65.5 hour work weeks. (Again though, I’ve never complained about my pay)

1  0

Unless I misunderstand you, which is entirely possible considering I’ve put in 65.5 hours this week–far more than what teachers do during their 9 months of work every year, what you just said makes absolutely no sense for your role as most people see it.

In my opinion, a teacher is very similar to a coach or a manager. Both of those jobs require the individual’s job assessment to be based on the results of those under them. I don’t see why you should be held to any different standard.

0  0

0  0

If think teaching to the test is a problem now, how is what you’re proposing going to be any different when the stakes are even higher? This would be swapping out one test for another and adding more bureaucracy into the system, which certainly doesn’t need it.

Moreover, how is such testing going to make students want to care, or parents want to care?

You want teachers to be accountable, fine, but this isn’t the way to do it.

1  0

I would be willing to bet the teachers your kids had in grades K-6 weren’t as effective as you, and would be weeded out by performance based reviews.

That’s the way almost all private enterprises work. Why should teaching be different?

0  0

I get my students in 7th and 8th grade reading at anywhere from a 1st to 5th grade level. By the end of the year with me they have risen at least 2 grade levels on average. Those are fantastic gains. Can they pass your standardized tests? Not a chance in hell. Should I be punished for that by losing my job? I don’t think so.

I only stated my credits so that my placement on the pay scale would be clear, not to give any indication of my teaching skills. Which, btw, are excellent.

0  0

Your credits impress me, but I would be more impressed with your ability to teach – proven by test results. Why are you and your union reluctant to allow you and your peers to be rewarded by results vs. years taught?

I actually wen to White Bear Lake schools. It sucked. I learned most in college.

My experience with my kids in MN schools is that all teaching is centered around the testing of the month. There is no consistency from year to year so there is no way to measure my kids’ performance. The teachers teach to some tests and others are mandated. There is no direction or reason to what is being taught.

According to my kid’s teacher there are 28 letters in the alphabet. Who knew that there are two types of A and G?

MN schools could be better with consistent testing and performance based rewards for teachers. How can you argue with that?

0  2

0  0

However, due to the nasty nasty redo of the standardized tests, inferring is now the #1 skill students need in reading, so any opportunity they get to practice it is good. Mr. V is merely doing a public service.

/sarcasm (except about the test. That test is gonna suck)

That said, I make a lot more than 17K, and am in my 4th year teaching. Of course I work for the highest paying district in the state. (on and off) But given the environment I work in, I consider it battle pay.

Even when I was working part-time, at one of the lower-paying districts, I made more than 17K. Mr. V, you’re getting hosed.

0  0

You are right. My MN public education didn’t prepare me to read very well.

On the other hand, If I was a smart teacher like you, I would teach my kids that they should write clearly to best get their point across. Don’t force your reader infer your meaning by putting two sentences together like a puzzle.

Take for example:

I won the lottery. At least I will when and if I pick the correct numbers and buy the ticket.

Is less clear than:

I didn’t win the lottery.

Have a nice summer.

Does the V in Mr. V stand for vague?

0  1

I try to teach my kids that skimming can mislead us and we miss the author’s intent.

Hopefully you aren’t also teaching those kids your skill at being kind of a standoffish dick.

I’m sure if I chose a part-time corporate job in a rural community instead of the downtown Minneapolis, full-time gig I have now, I probably wouldn’t be making the same money as my current peer group either.

Either way, in any circumstance, my response to my economic condition won’t ever include stealing money from children’s backpacks.

And so marks my last whack at this dead horse.

1  0