A fluff piece about the unnecessary 21 million dollar eyesore spanning Cedar appeared in the Star Tribune and was filled with some of the typical choice quotes that could only come from politicians happily throwing other people’s money into the wind. Honestly, I was literally gagging as I read what was said but figured it would be fun to share some of the comments here so you too could throw up a little in your mouth, chew, and swallow to save yourself some money being stolen out of your pockets to fund what should have been half the price and 100% less “artsy”.
Apple Valley Mayor Mary Hamann-Roland said the striking glass, stone and steel building has piqued the curiosity of residents.
“A lot of people have said to me, ‘Wow, that is a really, really cool looking transit center,’” she said. “The roofline follows the terrain. It’s art. It’s architecture reflecting the natural environment.”
1. Someone needs to explain to that insanely dumb bitch that the only thing that has people’s attention piqued is the fact that this glass enclosed building should have been built for half the price and without all the expensive “art”. It’s a fucking transit station, not an art center and it was built with OUR money. People are going to fucking park there and take a bus elsewhere. It’s going to stink like a parking garage, might as well look like one too. Honestly Mary, you fucking doofus, I don’t want people wasting my money, I want them saving it.
2. The roofline follows the terrain? What terrain Mary? We live in Minnesota and Apple Valley at that! There is no fucking terrain. The entire town was a fucking flat farm field for as far as the fucking eye can see. Stop talking out of your fucking ass, it just makes you look more insane than you are.
3. Oh dearest Mary please explain exactly what you meant by “it’s architecture reflecting the natural environment,” because I really want to know if you meant the glass reflecting back the insanely ridiculous traffic, neon open signs and the poorly plowed streets or if you were trying to make the building seem cooler than the harsh reality that you raised taxes this year and we haven’t seen fucking shit for it. Seriously, I want you to use that little box down below and share your thoughts because, as of right now, you just look dumb–maybe you could change that perception by manning up and clarifying your ridiculous comment.
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Then there is a little bit right at the end of the article which is just classic. While Mayor Mary was lucky enough not to be quoted saying anything about Flounders Circle, Apple Valley Community Development Director Bruce Nordquist didn’t make out so well. He was happy to note that they are now expecting to wait for development to happen–something which he said might take up to 20 years. Hmm, just a few years ago you were all fucking gung ho over that entire nuclear wasteland…now you realize it was premature and we’re all happy to stare at barren plots and empty parking spaces? Way to go Bruce.
So what do you think about our $21 million art project? Do you agree that it follows the terrain or that it reflects the natural environment? Maybe you think Mayor Mary and Bruce Nordquist are just as fucking crazy now as they ever were and need to get a sharp slap upside their fucking heads in an attempt to knock some sense into them? Whatever you have to say go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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December 30th, 2009 at 10:55 am
$21 Million Transit Station is Art? No, it’s Expensive: http://tinyurl.com/yjotd2z (thx @arecknor for pointing out the 1st link was broken)
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
December 30th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I think it is fucking ridiculous. I’m still trying to figure out why we need a sky way there?! Its not like there is a huge parking lot on the West side of Cedar so why would we need to get a lot of people from the West side to the East side? It is a complete waste of resources and it is ugly!
December 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Mrs. M,
The skyway is so that those in Southbound buses can get off and get back across the street to where their cars are parked. The buses will be continuing on to Lakeville’s mostly empty lots. I agree that it’s ugly but it will have a purpose 15 years from now when the Lakeville lots are actually utilized.
December 30th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I get the skyway, that’s legit and will save time on the southbound busses. You are correct that our Mayor Mary is at best out of touch.. Development of the “core” in APple Valley has been a disaster. If there’s central planning around here I wouldn’t know.
December 30th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Oh, and she’s vindictive against people who oppose her, as you’ve pointed out in this space at our city council meetings.
December 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Slightly overkill. (choking on my sarcasm)
If you look at the transit station that was placed in Cottage Grove (in place of a close indoor mini-golf and dolf dome in 2006 or abouts) You’ll see that all we have is a massive parking lot, and some basic shelters to hide out under or from the wind. No monolithic structures, no art-infused trendy architecture, just simple, effective and utilitarian shelters to wait for the bus under.
December 30th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Bill, you hit the nail on the head. #2 took the words right out of my mouth.
I guess “piqued the curiosity of residents” is one way to say everyone passing by wonders, “what the fuck happened there?!” I guess you say tomato, I say disaster.
This woman is beyond clueless. Someone needs to pack her back on the spaceship she came in on. Or at least send her to some granola town in northern California where some of this nonsense will resonate.
December 30th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
The roofline follows the terrain. I love it!
Can I just have my money back?
December 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Sorry I meant I want it to stay in my pocket.
December 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Yes, lets just have everything in this nation look like municipal structures. Penny wise, pound foolish.
December 30th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
shogun,
I live in a simple home, drive a simple car, own secondhand furniture, and still have an old-school TV without cable. Do you know why? Because I don’t have the money to be spending on a $800,000 house and a $65,000 car and certainly not on a $750 TV with $90/month in upgrades so I can get 135 channels.
When we continue to get hit with rising taxes, job loss, and service degradation because they don’t have any fucking money, I just don’t see why it makes sense to build what amounts to a glass house with gold leaf trim.
I have to live within my means to afford to live and thus they do too.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
You truly are a martyr.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Better than being a moron.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Makes me wonder how much those fancy little LED light accents cost to put in the structure? Unnecessary. Didn’t they do a pretty plain parking structure on I-35 and CR-50?
December 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Nils, yup they sure did.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I am in the wrong neighborhood. Thought this was a “food-blog.”
Take care.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I suggest you follow /category/restaurants or /category/uncategorized then.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Shogun, the fact is we already work about 1/4 of the year to pay taxes. My tax dollars pay for all kinds of silly things without going to pay for an odd looking parking structure in Apple Valley, MN. Seriously, Bills concern over govt spending has nothing to do with being penny wise and pound foolish.
Can you please elaborate for me on the wisdom of spending 21 million dollars on a parking ramp that could have been built for literally millions less?
December 30th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
My take.. The problem is that we don’t really know how fiscally responsible the construction of the facility was because some fool is too busy gushing over the “architecture”, or the “Feel” or the “emotion” involved in the facility. What I would want is someone discussing the facility from a point of view of someone responsible to a constituency to manage their money the best way possible.
To that end, if you want to gush over the facility, you should be gushing about how much you got for how little you spent. That they are not gushing that has me fearful that they spend a lot and didn’t necessarily get much. Why these representatives in your government can not recognize their true responsibility I’m not sure. You’re not supposed to make the stuff look great. You’re supposed to spend the least amount of money to get the most functional thing you can that looks the best you can within the budget restraints of it being functional.
December 30th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
This might not be total apples to apples, but I would be curious to find out how much the ramp on 35E cost per parking space vs. the Cedar ramp. That structure looks fine but it is much more utilitarian looking than the Cedar ramp. No curved roofline or glass walls. The land costs and the costs of the the skyway would probably have to broken out, but otherwise the comparison might work. They were built at the exact same time, so we might be able to get an idea of how much of the Cedar ramp is really fluff.
December 30th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
35W?
December 30th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Chad,
First off, everyone knows that this is a food blog ;-)
Second, sorry that your post was in the spam filter for so long :(
December 30th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just to add a little perspective on the numbers: The average basic parking ramp constructed in the Twin Cities costs over $17,000 per space just to construct. Parking ramps that cost $35k-40k/stall are not that unusual. I know that sounds unbelievable, but that’s the truth — see table on p.2 of this report: http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0504.pdf. Most people just don’t realize how much society spends to support our auto-centric culture because the costs are all hidden or subsidized. Most spaces in parking ramps cost more than the cars that occupy them!
If you do the math, 750 parking spaces * $17,000 = $12.750 million in average *construction* costs alone for a *basic* parking structure. Now you have to add to that design costs, land acquisition costs, etc. And this facility, for very good reasons related to the rapid bus service, includes a skyway. And because people will have to be waiting around in all kinds of Minnesota weather, this transit facility includes climate controlled platform areas that aren’t included in a basic parking garage. Finally, because projections show transit usage increasing in the future, this facility was designed and built so it could be expanded with additional levels in the future. This will certainly save the taxpayers a lot of money when it comes time to expand, but the extra foundation and support adds to the upfront price now. All these utilitarian features cost a lot, lot more than you think and if you add it all up and put it in perspective, $21 million doesn’t seem that out of the ballpark. Of course, that number could be less if the building were utilitarian and unattractive. That’s definitely true. But I bet even a basic, utilitarian structure would have probably cost nearly $20 million.
December 30th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Sorry, yep..the new one on Kenrick. That brings up a question I never understood though. Why is it still called 35W after the two have already merged back together? Shouldn’t it just be I35 at that point????
December 30th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
I suppose it is 35 there. Sorry.
December 30th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Looks like the Kenrick and I-35 ramp only cost $6.6 million in construction costs for 500 parking spaces, which is a lot cheaper than the Apple Valley one. That price wouldn’t include design costs, real estate acquisition, etc. and obviously, there are a lot of differences besides aesthetics–50% more stalls at the Apple Valley facility, two platforms on opposite sides of the road, the skyway, more climate-controlled spaces, and building the structure to support up to 5 levels. But that’s still a pretty big price difference. Not sure how it all works out, but shows the MVTA could build cheaper if it needed to.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:25 am
Kenrick and I-35 cost $6.6 Million for a limited 6 routes downtown from 6:05 – 7:35 AM and 6 routes from DT from 4:15 – 5:45 PM daily. I guess if you have a predictable work schedule this is ok but seems like a joke for a $6.6M facility.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:51 am
Yes, it’s I-35 there.
December 31st, 2009 at 9:56 am
Brandon, thats a very cool report, and I think it just illustrates that Apple Valley is not the only town with elected officials who dont mind wasting other peoples money.
The way I read it though, that 17K already includes land costs, material, the structure, design etc. It actually looks like they are counting design in the hard costs and the soft costs, but whatever. Its interesting informatin no matter how you look at it. You also have to assume that some of those other ramps have similar goodies built in, yet they came in at an average of 17K per space, as compared to the Apple Valley location which cost the taxpayers approx 28K per space, in an area where I would assume land is fairly inexpensive compared to a downtown urban location.
December 31st, 2009 at 11:09 am
I would be curious how they figured the value of the land. Did Apple Valley pull eminent domain on Watson’s?
December 31st, 2009 at 11:11 am
Nils, the county did: http://www.lazylightning.org/watsons-forced-to-move-by-dakota-county-and-mvta-for-transit-station-parking-apple-valley-mn
December 31st, 2009 at 11:13 am
I’ll admit, I was too lazy to do a search. Thanks for doing the homework for me.
December 31st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Do folks recall what was there before Watson’s? Yep, that’s right, the former location of Menard’s.
Note it looks like Watson’s paid $2,330,000 for that property back in 2000. At least according to the Dakota County Real Estate Inquiry. Currently it is the Met Council that owns the property with a taxable value of 3,497,700.
If you’ve never played with the Real Estate inquiry for Dakota County, it can be kind of fun. You can get there from here: http://www.co.dakota.mn.us/HomeProperty/default.htm
January 1st, 2010 at 9:14 am
A couple of factual clarifications – not going to wade too deeply into this discussion, though. (Bill, you might get more pols willing to discuss here without the name calling. I know it is your style, and while I can look past it after the Army and being a cops wife, it may be rather off-putting for some of my colleagues – just sayin’….)
1. The Lakeville I-35 station has 750 spots. I don’t have the final cost readily available, but the bids came in low enough that they were able to do 750 spots for less than what was originally budgeted for 500 spots. While there are only 6 morning and evening trips now, the facility was built to serve future service – not just for today. Initially, the design called for 500 spaces, with the future expansion to 750. The site was chosen because it didn’t require any land acquisition – it used to be a weigh station, and was being used temporarily as a park and pool lot.
The Met Council was the lead agency for the project. They had to run the design by the Lakeville City Council for approval – the first design was rejected. They were going to wrap the whole thing with metal mesh. After being sent back to the drawing board, with instructions to keep the costs down, but make it fit better with the area, they came back with the design that you see today.
2. Prior to the old Apple Valley transit station being built, the city of Apple Valley owned the land where Red Robin and the movie theater are located. They could have put the transit station there to begin with, but the previous mayor (before Mayor Mary) refused, because he wanted those commercial developments on Cedar. At the time that all of this was going on, Lakeville was expanding Cedar to 4 lanes from Dodd to Hwy 70, so the Dakota County and the city of Lakeville added the AV transit station to their application for federal funding, and secured the money to buy the land that the old transit station is on.
In 2004 or 2005, the state gave bonding money for improvements to the AV Transit Station. Initially it was thought that they would just deck the existing parking, but MVTA and the County spent some time studying different scenarios on how to link the parking and Cedar Ave, after the previous decision not to be on Cedar Ave, and ended up buying Watson’s.
Dakota County was the lead agency, but the design was driven by MVTA for the entire corridor – that is why the Lakeville park and ride on Cedar has the whoosh roof line on its little shelter, as will the station in Eagan. MVTA has info on the costs on their web site: http://www.mvta.com/sites/d82719c7-9b33-46b8-a7af-e5577d7145af/uploads/mvta_cedar_avenue_w_captions_for_web.pdf
January 1st, 2010 at 9:23 am
Thanks for understanding and believe me, I’m not sure she’d want to post here anyway. If you remember correctly, she hijacked Thisweek’s The Show when she appeared on it and went off on rambling tangents that made no sense. That definitely wouldn’t work for her here and she knows it.
That said, thanks for the interesting history especially about the land where Red Robin and the movie theater are. Things we probably wouldn’t have known otherwise.
January 1st, 2010 at 9:42 am
Thanks Wendy, great info.
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 am
Transit stations are poping up all over the metro area. Why do we need to reinvent one every time we build one. What the heck is the Suburban Transit Autority for? (except for Kautz’s fund raising from attorneys) Burger King does not come up with a new design every time they build a restaurant and neither does McDonalds. Imagine what a Big Mac would cost if they did.
Every public building we put up as to be a monument to some egotistical politician and we wonder where the hell are tax money is going. The maintenance on these monuments has to be horrific and if want to observe, go to the Burnsville Transit Station and observe the window washing using extension ladders. They did not have enough funding for the project so they left out the elevators on the ramp and people need to use four flights of stairs. Anyone with half a brain could have put up a building for half the cost, including elevators.
In addition, there are about twenty parking spots reserved for employee of which three are used. These spots are closer to the buses than the handicap parking. Where I come from public employees parked in spots that were furtherest from the building and walked. The convenient parking was reserved for CUSTOMERS. Sometimes elections have unintended consequences like having Mayor Kautz in Burnsville participating in $20 million decisions.
May 9th, 2012 at 8:44 am
[...] break the law while she campaigns for another four years she doesn’t intend to fully serve or convincing everyone that a $21 million transit station, which hasn’t been used in over a year,…. However, considering that Will Branning was a mastermind of lying to the public while convincing [...]
September 11th, 2012 at 7:02 am
[...] Valley’s $21 million nightmare, the transit station which spans both sides of Cedar and probably has been closed more than it has [...]
October 12th, 2012 at 7:02 am
[...] Now, don’t get me wrong. I think the idea of utilizing the talent of elementary school aged children to develop marketing materials for public transit is a great idea considering the overall poor quality of the usual output from the MVTA. However, I’m not sure delivering pennants to hand out at local parades really does much to get other people riding the bus. It’s not as if these somehow change the fact that the MVTA doesn’t effectively service enough routes outside the main corridors. While the MVTA can save money on marketing by utilizing free labor of our public schools, they’re likely not going to put those saved dollars towards anything of substance and instead will litter our beautiful 21 million dollar transit station with items which detract from the piece of art the building is and certainly from the contour of the land it follows. [...]