Yesterday on my way home from work at around 7:15 I observed an Apple Valley police officer (female officer, car #922) drive in what I felt was an unsafe manner from the Apple Valley police station at the corner of Galaxie and 147th to the intersection of Flagstaff and CR-42 only to find themselves stuck in the queue to turn left on CR-42 at Flagstaff due to a red light. While it is understandable that an officer may drive in excess of the speed limit in response to a call, especially when their lights are activated, one has to wonder if doing so when they are not should be as common practice as it apparently seems to be.
In this particular instance I watched as the officer pulled out of the police station in front of me and headed across Galaxie on 147th, changing lanes and accelerating to what appeared to be between 15-20 mph over the posted speed limit of 30 MPH. This particular spot was the location of one of my two speeding tickets in Minnesota (40 in a 30) and one which I am ever conscious of the speed limit.
As the officer stopped at the corner of 147th and Flagstaff, they made the right turn to head up towards CR-42 and appeared to continue to drive in excess of the limit up until the point where they entered the queue caused by the red light at CR-42 to turn left. It was at this point that I was able to catch up to the officer and record the car number as I went past, all the while remaining at, or under the posted speed limit.
When I arrived home I posted my complaint on Twitter:
AVPD female officer in car #922 speeding (~+20) on Flagstaff next to Menard’s. Unacceptable.
Reader Ryan M. responded that perhaps the officer was on a call which dictated they not use their lights or siren. Now this is certainly a valid thought however with the light being red at Flagstaff and CR-42 causing an inevitable backup which allowed a person doing the speed limit to later catch up makes one wonder whether the excessive speed was worth it. In addition, Minnesota statute does allow the operator of an emergency vehicle some leeway with regards to standard rules of the road, although seemingly only when emergency lights are activated:
169.03 EMERGENCY VEHICLES.
Subdivision 1.Scope. The provisions of this chapter applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways shall apply to the drivers of all vehicles owned or operated by the United States, this state, or any county, city, town, district, or any other political subdivision of the state, subject to such specific exemptions as are set forth in this chapter with reference to authorized emergency vehicles.
[...]
Subd. 5.Course of duty. No driver of any authorized emergency vehicle shall assume any special privilege under this chapter except when such vehicle is operated in response to any emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law.
The statute continues with more in 169.17:
The speed limitations set forth in sections 169.14 to 169.17 do not apply to an authorized emergency vehicle responding to an emergency call. Drivers of all emergency vehicles shall sound an audible signal by siren and display at least one lighted red light to the front, except that law enforcement vehicles shall sound an audible signal by siren or display at least one lighted red light to the front. This provision does not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of persons using the street, nor does it protect the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the consequence of a reckless disregard of the safety of others.
It would appear that if the officer was indeed responding to a call and wanted to drive in excess of the speed limit, they should have had their lights or siren activated. While they were consistently pulling away from me, I would have been able to see their lights and likely would have heard the siren–although the second may not be true.
It seems to me that all city representatives should act in accordance with the law regardless of situation, especially when they’re in a marked vehicle. In this particular instance there is a possibility that the officer had a very good reason to be driving well in excess of the limit but being that they weren’t in a big enough rush to preempt the traffic light but only enough to save themselves absolutely no time by speeding based on my ability to catch them at a light later, it seems that they were operating their vehicle in a manner which they probably should not have been.
What do you think about this one? Do you find police officers routinely driving in excess of posted speed limits or otherwise operating their vehicles in a manner which you would say is inappropriate? Do you think that in this particular instance the officer should have activated their sirens/lights? Are there other statutes which may cover such action by the operator of an emergency vehicle which I missed? Whatever you have to say about this one go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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July 18th, 2012 at 7:41 am
You know, I wonder…. last night at the intersection of McAndrews and Gardenview as I was getting ready to go green a cop in the other direction flipped the traffic control, got his green light and left me sitting at what had been green, for like 3 seconds, and thanks to him, was now red for 3-4 minutes. And based on the relaxed way he went through the intersection, i’m pretty sure he really had no where to go. Just didn’t want to wait at the light.
July 18th, 2012 at 8:17 am
I have a two friends and relative that work for local police stations (non-south of the river). They have all admitted to using their lights to get though red lights even though there is no call. They also believe that they are better driver so they think it is OK to drive faster. As if all the training in the world will stop a kid from running into the street.
Here is another fun fact to piss you off: the wives and girlfriends of cops have a card (nothing official) that they can show if they get pulled over. Most of the time it allows them to get out of a ticket.
What cops generally don’t seem to understand is that every time the bend/break the rules, no matter how minor, it erodes the public support and makes their job harder.
July 18th, 2012 at 8:18 am
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July 18th, 2012 at 8:25 am
Not that this is the situation, but I appreciate squad cars that travel in the left lane on interstates/highways and travel 5-7 mph over the speed limit versus the squad that travels at exactly the speed limit in the right lane of a highway.
My neighbor did say there was a pretty bad accident on Galaxie near the moronic one ways in the Founders area…not sure if this incident and car #922 were related?
July 18th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Ryan, that happened earlier in the day so no, it wasn’t related.
July 18th, 2012 at 8:30 am
She was probably in a hurry to go plant some evidence or taser someone unnecessarily.
July 18th, 2012 at 9:01 am
OBB – most family members of cops tape their officer’s business card to the back of their drivers license with the phrase “contact in case of emergency.” But the real reason of course is that it’s a clever way to let the officer that pulled them over that they have a “get out of jail free” card.
Bill, I agree with your opinion on cops, and I truly hope you never become the subject of a police investigation. Cops have great memories and I bet they are eagerly awaiting a chance to “put you in your place” with extreme prejudice.
July 18th, 2012 at 9:10 am
My opinion on cops? Please explain.
I fully appreciate and support the work they do. I am the first one championing for cutting extraneous nice-to-haves when it in any way impacts public safety, something I believe is a service which is a must-have and should take all precedence over any others.
That said, I also believe they should be held to the same, if not a higher, standard than the general public. The 10 or so cars this particular officer passed last night in a rush to nowhere probably shook their fists in the air and said, “fucking pigs”. Me? I just want the problem to get noticed and be corrected.
All employees, regardless of sector and profession, make mistakes. I make mistakes daily and hope that they are caught and pointed out so that I know I am not doing my job in a way which those who gauge my effectiveness as an employee find acceptable.
I see no difference here. If that makes me the target of some sort of trumped up police charge, something I personally believe is well below the officers in Dakota County based on my personal experiences with them (including the excellent work they’ve been doing chasing down the fucking piece of shit who stole my, and several other’s, credit card numbers from Enjoy!), so be it. But I just don’t see that happening.
Each and every time I have been stopped in Minnesota it was because I was at fault, no questions asked. I paid my fine and went on with my life. I never thought it was unfair and I hold no grudges. However, I do believe they shouldn’t be driving in excess of the speed limit w/o their lights on. Unless I am missing a statute (and I very may well be as I admittedly don’t know the law in Minnesota all that well), it seems that in order to operate a car in the manner this particular officer happened to be yesterday, she needed to have her lights/siren engaged.
July 18th, 2012 at 9:32 am
Bill,
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant I agree with your opinion in this instance. Like you explained, I too think, cops should be held to the same standards as the general public. And, like you said, I believe there are some bad cops in most cities just like any other profession.
The problem is, there is really no one that polices the police. That scenario allows for a bad cop to be a bigger problem than say a bad programmer. Remember, “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
For instance, the office in car #922 will likely become aware of this posting/complaint – would you agree? Let’s say she pulls you over a couple years from now on a Friday for a broken tail light. When asked for your insurance you realize you forgot to put the new card in your glove box. She now gets to decide if you get a ticket or if you to to jail for the weekend. If she remembers your name, my guess is that you won’t get off with a simple ticket.
I hope I am wrong, but I have seen too many situations that tend to support my argument.
Thanks
July 18th, 2012 at 9:37 am
NWRG,
I still believe that the officers in Dakota County are far removed from what the movies and personal experience dictate from officers roaming small town America and this wouldn’t occur.
But you may be right. Maybe she would throw me in jail and that’s certainly a risk I take when I try to watch the watchers.
July 18th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Fun story about cops going over the speed limit…
Years ago, returning to college from a weekend trip home, a cop in Wisconsin passed me going around 10-15 MPH faster than me (and I was already around 5 over). His lights weren’t on so I sped up and trailed him at a distance, figuring that as long as I could see him ahead of me I was safe. After around 5 miles of me going 80 MPH in a 65 MPH zone (with him going 80-85), he suddenly hits his brakes and slows to a CRAWL. I was forced to either pass him or make it painfully obvious that I was following him (as if my constant idiotic presence a few hundred yards back hadn’t made that obvious already). I passed him and he flipped his lights on and pulled me over. He was PISSED! He asked why I was going so fast. I answered that it was because he was (wrong answer?). He asked if I had somewhere to be, because he was responding to a stranded motorist. He got a good minute of stern yelling in before heading back to his car and proceeding ahead to a stranded motorist just up the road. No ticket, not even a written warning. Just a lot of yelling. It’s the only time I’ve actually been yelled at by an officer (and I was pulled over more times than I care to admit before finally getting rid of some of the lead in my foot).
I just checked Wisconsin law and it’s illegal for an officer to speed without both lights AND sirens activated. Here’s the abbreviated text from the end of page 2 and beginning of page 3:
It could be that the officer didn’t write me up because he needed to respond, but he found the time to pull me over and yell at me, so I’m guessing that wasn’t it. I have a feeling he knew the law wouldn’t support him if I opposed it and he was just pissed about a stupid college kid tailing him (which was admittedly not the brightest thing I’ve ever done).
To this day it’s the only time I’ve been pulled over and given only a verbal warning.
July 18th, 2012 at 9:59 am
One last thought, do you remember the Eagan guy that allegedly harassed his neighbors – your post http://www.lazylightning.org/eagan-man-accuses-detective-of-raping-4-year-olds ?
Read the complaint closely. Cops received “numerous” complaints of harassment from 2007 to 2011 from this guy’s neighbors. No charges were filed – he didn’t even receive a ticket. Then, the city administrator received a letter alleging police misconduct. His allegations are most likely false, but he pissed off the wrong people. All of a sudden, the detectives got involved, extensive searches were made, and the guy got charged with a felony. CBS “somehow got word” the guy was going to be arrested and was able to record the arrest for their news.
Obviously the guy is an A-hole, but do you think he got treated the same as if he hadn’t made accusations against the police?
July 18th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Knowing what I know about the Eagan police, I don’t think that’s the case but I would need to know more about the particular situation to make an honest assessment.
July 18th, 2012 at 10:34 am
My brother once got a ticket for driving through RR crossing arms that were down because a sheriff followed him through the arms illegally, then proceeded to tailgate him for 2 miles before he realized “his main switch wasn’t on” meaning the sheriff didn’t have any sirens or lights on. Then proceeded to write out a several hundred dollar ticket.
My brother set up a meeting with the sheriff to discuss the ticket (quite sporting of the sheriff). At the meeting, my brother didn’t mention wanting to get out of his ticket, but rather that the sheriff should be ticketed for illegally crossing the railroad tracks, speeding, and tailgating because his lights/siren were not on.
The ticket was “taken care of”.
July 18th, 2012 at 10:43 am
Cops play by their own rules all the time because there is NO ONE to enforce rules against them. Ever tried to complain about a cop or their behavior? NOTHING IS DONE. They cover for each other and other cops are the ones to investigate. It is worse in smaller communities because there are no citizen review boards – which I think every community should have. I’ve heard numerous stories like this – and they all can’t have an excuse. People wonder why no one has respect for cops any more – this is why.
July 18th, 2012 at 11:07 am
Ben Franklin,
Who the fuck wonders why no one has respect for police officers? What a fucking gross generalization. I know a number of officers where I live and have interacted positively with many others (including a few deserved traffic tickets), and I have not encountered one instance in which I thought they were being disrespected.
I don’t know where you are from, but maybe you should move the hell out.
lefty
July 18th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Lefty,
Isn’t your opinion, based on a “number of officers” a generalization too?
July 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am
Whew! Lefty has a chip on his shoulder! Take a chill pill – no need to use profanity just because someone has a different opinion. I have a ton of respect for DECENT cops – two relatives are cops – one on Mpls PD for 20+ years. THEY will tell you the respect level is low. They will also tell you there are many that abuse their position – it is a fact. So – don’t get your undies in a bunch unless you’re the cop speeding and want to explain why!
July 18th, 2012 at 11:24 am
This isn’t new behavior by the AVPD. Does anyone recall the pregnant woman killed by being hit by an AV police officer a few years ago (maybe upwards of 10 years)? I think it was CR42 & Galaxy, young officer with a ‘ride along’ in the car…
July 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am
NWRG,
My opinion is my opinion and that is all. I was quite clear regarding the experience my opinion comes from.
I didn’t say everyone has respect for officers, which is the opposite of Ben Franklin who clearly claims his opinion as fact. It isn’t. He just told us where his opinion came from and that makes more sense, but to assume everyone is wondering why no one respect people who have that job is idiotic.
July 18th, 2012 at 11:31 am
TearItDown, here’s the story you were referencing. You’re right, it was 10 years ago this November.
July 18th, 2012 at 11:59 am
I remember the story referenced by TID and Joey, we had just moved to the cities.
Without getting into the whole respect for police officers thing, I think that speeding, flipping lights, and general erratic driving is very common of the police in the cities that I spend most of my time driving in (Burnsville, Eagan, Apple Valley, Bloomington). I often see cops roll through stop signs, speed, cut across traffic without signalling, not use turn signals, do u-turns, etc, all without lights or sirens. I also see cops tailgait, drive while talking on the phone, drive while using the computer, and generally neglect most of the traffic laws we are supposed to follow.
Not sure if any of that matters, but its annoying when you see a cop cause far more danger with their driving than they are supposedly preventing with their traffic patrols.
July 18th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
The police and prosecutors protect their own:
Cottage Grove, MN – Cottage Grove Police Chief John Mickelson pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor Monday for an incident in which he rolled his vehicle and left it upside down with the motor running.
Three other charges were dismissed, including having an open alcohol bottle in a vehicle and a gross misdemeanor for leaving the scene of accident.
Defense attorney Fred Bruno said Mickelson felt he pleaded to an appropriate charge, driving too fast for the conditions. It was raining the night of the accident.
Lakeville prosecutor Elliott Knetsch said he handled the case the same as he would for anyone else. He said it would’ve been hard to prove the initial charges because Mickelson was the only witness and a blood alcohol test showed none in his system.
Authorities could not find Mickelson for more than 13 hours after the crash May 8.
He told police he had walked to a friend’s house and then went to a hospital to get treated for a dislocated shoulder and concussion.
Knetsch said hospital reports confirmed Mickelson’s injuries, and that the law allows an accident victim to seek medical help before calling police in such circumstances.
Inside Mickelson’s vehicle, police found his badge, his loaded gun, his chief’s ID and two opened beer bottles. Bruno contended that a friend had drank the beer a couple of days earlier while boating with Mickelson, recapped the bottles, and put them in the back of the SUV.
Knetsch said the bottles were found out of the driver’s reach.
Mickelson agreed to pay $655 in court costs and restitution of $1,855 for the search efforts. He will also send rescue workers an apology letter.
July 18th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
No one yet has commented on WHO POLICES THE POLICE?
July 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Given that the police work for the city and the city is represented by people we elect, I’d say the police are policed by us. That’s not to say the policing is even-handed, but that’s how it works.
For what it’s worth, I dug a little more into that story about the Apple Valley officer who ran the red light. He was fired by the Apple Valley city council and the firing was upheld by in arbitration. The officer wound up pleading guilty to a misdemeanor of inattentive driving. He’s now an officer with the Osseo Police Dept. South St. Paul turned him down for a job 2 years ago, though he scored higher than any other applicant on their entry level police officer test. I have to wonder if the accident was a factor in their decision.
In any event, the fact that he was let go by the City of Apple Valley tells me there’s some kind of accountability. Whether that extends to everyday traffic violations, of course, is a separate question. I think that in an age of social media where so much can be recorded, there are more and more ways for officers to be held accountable for their behavior and the problem is at least less of an issue now than it once was.
July 18th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Ben Franklin,
Regarding who polices the police: “I dunno know. Coast Guard?”
July 18th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
I also think the police police themselves.
The advent of video cameras is making it increasingly difficult for an officer to give another one a break for something serious. If a cop lets another one drive from a traffic stop drunk and that guy kills someone, that’s a lawsuit that no city can afford. It’s the guy’s job for sure. As police continue to move forward with cameras on their person, it will be even tighter regarding transparency with these issues
I could not give a shit if somebody’s spouse got off of a speeding ticket, it’s a perk of being married to a cop is what I say.
I think Ben Franklin also thinks that nobody ever landed on the moon and he probably believes in Bigfoot too.
July 18th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
lefty: “I think Ben Franklin also thinks …” Always dangerous arguments when you get into what you think and what others think. You’re trying to avoid the point with comments like that. The point is there is very little accountability for cops. Yes – when the media is involved – they have to do something or be subject to much criticism. How many instances when the media isn’t involved? They are immune from private civil suits. Most people are held accountable through our legal system. They are not – unless they grossly step outside the bounds of their authority. Why do you think there is the rule that illegally obtained evidence isn’t admissible in court – to be a check on their power. It is the court system (one branch of government) checking the power of another (the executive branch). If it doesn’t get into the court system or into the media – very little accountability and things are handled very quietly. If you have personal knowledge of this not being true – please share. Otherwise – there are tons of books and many articles on this. This isn’t a problem I flagged – many others before me have flagged it.
July 18th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Lefty, this guy is 306 years old. I’d probably leave him alone.
July 18th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Joey,
The fact that he won’t dispute his belief in Bigfoot is enough for me.
For a guy who wants us to believe he has friends and relatives that are police officers makes me wonder if they are too happy to have him on their side.
Also, I had always assumed that this was the Ben Franklin of five and dime store fame, not the electricity guy.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
I just noticed that MSPD recently overtook Chad as the commenter w/the most comments on the site.
I really need to figure out the bug in the leaderboard too. Bleh.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
I am sure it has something to do with MSPD getting positive thumbs up for a bunch of negative ones he should have from back in the day. You should start there.
Once you figure that out, maybe you’ll have some integrity again.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
If only that were all it takes.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
It’s ok, you didn’t acknowledge my 800th comment either. I cried for a few days but I’m over it now.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Whew. If it had been a week I would have been upset with myself.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Lefty,
He formed the first fire department in Pennsylvania so it goes without saying that he would have friends and relatives in law enforcement.
And the five & dime guy lives on. He currently resides in Lakeville, but I’m quite confident this is not him.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
just because officer or officerette friendly ‘carry’ and drive a hotrod doesn’t give them the right to act above the law in any instance. case in point, that moron minneapolis cop in anoka sucker punching that poor slob to the point of dame bramage.
bb
July 18th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Somewhere around 10 years ago on Grand Ave. in Saint Paul around 2:30 in the morning I watched a cop stop at a red light, flip on his lights, go through the intersection, turn off his lights. I saw this from my car behind him at the red light.
July 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Dez,
You sure you weren’t behind him in the back seat, your car behind you getting towed?
lefty
July 18th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Well how a-bout that! The Top Crony.
July 18th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
BRB
I gotta go tape my emergency info to the back of my driver’s license.
July 18th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
On the subject of interacting with the police, see this presentation from a law prof. He offers up several dangers of talking to a cop without a lawyer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
July 18th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
If I were one to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, I might think that in this instance the officer heard a radio call where someone was asking for assistance or something like that. This spurred the officer into immediate action as they then call on the radio, and acknowledge the message…. but as they did that either the need was reduced or someone else was already there. Thus the officer found no further need to go zippy fast.
That said, I don’t give police officers the benefit of the doubt because I hold them to a high standard. One that I see them failing all the time. Speeding or driving excessively slow (dicking with traffic), not using their turn indicators. Swerving on the road due to distracted driving as they play with their computer. Oh, how about entering private property in the middle of the night to wake up someone and tell them their garage door is open.
And still, I appreciate the good things they do, and hope they can find a way to improve.
Anytime an officer is exceeding the speed limit or driving erratically they should at a minimum have their lights on, and I prefer them to also have their siren on. The risk to other drivers is high even if they have everything on, but with it off the risk is too high.
July 19th, 2012 at 7:27 am
There are a lot of cops who have family members like O.B.B. and those are the family members that one tries not to see very often.
My husband was a cop for 15 years. I have never heard of taping your husband’s card to the back of your license. I do tend to drive faster than the speed limit, and sometimes I get a warning, and sometimes I get a ticket, just like everyone else. Last year, I got pulled over for driving 7 over on an interstate, and not only did I get a ticket, but the trooper piled on a second ticket for my husband, because he was sleeping in the back seat without his seatbelt on.
The trooper asked why we were traveling through his state, and I explained that we were on our way home from visiting a cop who had been shot in the line of duty, and had been having a hard time after retirement, so we had gone to help out his family. My husband had been totally disabled in the line of duty, as well, and was sleeping in the back seat because his brain injury makes it very difficult to travel. We were not aware that seat belts were required in the back seat in that state. The trooper came back a few minutes later, with our tickets and information on where to send the payment.
20 or 30 years ago, things were very different. It has gotten much harder to be a cop, and there is much less support for cops when something goes wrong, even if it wasn’t the cop’s fault. Suicide rates have skyrocketed, yet the rumors persist that cops can get away with anything and are unaccountable.
In 2009, I attended the funeral of a 36 year old former cop. It was the first of 13 cop funerals/visitations that I attended in the span of a year. When that cop was 24, his leg was severed when he was hit by a drunk driver. He spent 12 years begging for proper treatment for his leg, and was in constant, severe pain. He never got the help he needed, and died as a result of complications of his injury. Not only was the person who kept him from getting medical care not disciplined in any way, that same city employee has spent more than 7 years delaying and denying care for my husband.
In 2010, my husband had a life-threatening reaction to medication. We needed to see a specialist to make sure that his meds were appropriate, so it wouldn’t happen again. It took 6 months before the city would let him see the specialist.
Yes, we have an attorney, and no, we can’t sue. In MN, once you file for work comp, you are forbidden to sue. While Mpls is one of the worst I have heard of so far, there are some other horrendous situations that I have learned about in other parts of the country. The cop world is a very private one, so very little of it makes the news, but even when cops are willing to pull aside the curtain and talk about what is happening, the media tends not to care. Bob Collins from MPR did a story about us in 2010. Another cop contacted several other reporters and suggested that they talk to us, and was told that there was no story there. Meanwhile, rumors fill the gap in information.
I don’t know anything about the Apple Valley cop, so I won’t weigh in on that.
July 19th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Thank you Wendy. God bless you, your husband and all of the men and women who serve us in this capacity. I support you 100%.
- Dave
July 19th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Lefty: Got a picture of Bigfoot last night. Was trying to post for you to see – but not in correct format. Maybe I’ll email to Bill and he can post. I also heard you can go Bigfoot hunting with Bobo for $300. Sounds like you might find this fun.
July 23rd, 2012 at 1:40 am
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July 23rd, 2012 at 2:44 pm
That is easily the worst spelling of any word ever on this site.
September 11th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
The AVPD has a lot to learn from the BVPD: http://www.lazylightning.org/DakotaComplaints/13022.txt