Astroturf originally uploaded by Alexander Olm
Over the 4.5+ years that I’ve been doing restaurant reviews I have run into numerous instances of restaurant owners or their family and friends, unhappy about a review I gave or the comments provided by others, who then decided it was in their best interests to post false reviews of praise while trying to conceal their true identities. While those tactics might work on other Internet forums which allow “anonymous” reviews such as Yelp, Urbanspoon or even other local websites, I don’t let it slide here as I feel it’s up to me to ensure that the experience I provide is an accurate one from all sides of the equation.
You may be asking, “but why do you care?” Well here’s a quick run down of why I think it’s important for those with a direct or indirect interest in a business should be clear about who they are when they post a comment here or anywhere else:
1. Being upfront and honest about who you are and who you represent is the right thing to do.
2. If someone is dissatisfied with your business for some reason you should take it upon yourself to take a good hard look at what you are doing to see if they are correct. Perhaps those rose colored glasses need to come off and some serious self study needs to come into play instead.
3. It shows to your customers, current and future, that you care about your business enough that you pay attention to what people are saying and you are willing to respond to it–as yourself.
While some readers here have seen exactly what a restaurant owner does when they astroturf, one reader suggested I point out some clear examples of what has happened in the past since it’s rarely on the front page and usually requires digging through 50+ comment threads to see their antics. Here are some of the best I came across in my dig through the comment archives:
Kami Japanese Steakhouse in Apple Valley provided us with this comic relief astroturfing back in June of 2007:
mutsumi (not verified):
Last week my fiance and I planed to head out to Enjoy for a romantic dinner together. Instead, we saw Kami and decided we should check it out. Kami serves the finest sushi w/the most fresh selection of fish ever in the TC. Sevice was very friendly. The elegant restaurant offers quite a calm and relaxing ambience. Teppanyaki show was full of excitement, I had a blast! Notice how there wasn’t a grand opening yet… GFRY? kami is a NEW RESTAURANT it hasn’t fully put out its advertisement for a reason… Probably because they would like to improve their business to it’s full potential before they can officially open. AS for Mr. John Ames, yes we all know his rep. I have no idea how he landed the title of being “HEAD CHEF.” My overall experience at Kami was phenomenal. I definitely enjoyed my time there.
lov2dine (not verified):
Kami serviced us with friendlyness, finest fish, the most tasty and exciting show in the TC. I just know Kami will EXCEL to its fullest potential as a fine japanese cuisine!
jr34 (not verified):
My buddies and I finally stoped into Kami last weekend. We sat at the teppanyaki table. Our server was really friendly and the chef gave us a very impressive show. The filet mignon was scrumpcious. I also ordered the blue fin tuna (maguro) sashimi from the sushi bar while sitting at the teppan table, it was rich in flavor I strongly recommend it! Finally, there is a place near by to stop in for some quality fish, fine japanese cuisine and entertaining dining experience. I’m a huge sushi fan and I surely am comin’ back!
Now as you can see each and ever review was either dripping with sarcasm or they were fake. The waders got hiked up right away and then two more comments appeared, from different usernames, all saying basically the same thing in rapid succession–more evidence of their nonsense factor. Thanks for making that one easy.
More recently we experienced astroturfing from Goodfella’s Pizza in Lakeville. The daughter of the owners posted without fulling disclosing her own interest in the business and it took the diligence of one very thorough reader to track down the relationship and send it to me:
Bill: Well, well, well AJ… Now it all makes sense. I’d probably be sensitive about the strip mall in question if my parents owned it. Many thanks go out to the reader who spent the time researching what I expected all along.
AJ Bitzan: So…let me get this straight. Just because I have a vested interest in the mall and the success of it I can’t defend it, and refute what you are saying. I would hate for your little groupies to miss out on a good pizzeria because you have an ill supported opinion.
Yet you have no formal training in food, journalism, or anything of the sort and you become the food God? How does that work out?
While those are pretty fun examples with text to go with them, there have been many other restaurants which have tried the same thing including (but not limited to) Johnny’s Chicago Style Beef & Dogs in Apple Valley, the now defunct Bucky’s (prior to it turning into a diner), Anthony’s Parkway Grille in Burnsville, Casa Nostra in Lakeville, the Mraz Center in Burnsville, and most recently Rack Shack BBQ in Burnsville.
This is something I will continue to track down and bring up even though the exposing of anonymous commenters on websites has become a hot topic in the journalism world recently (via UpWithTheMooses) as I believe it is important to the little credibility this forum provides to the public.
So what do you think about astroturfing in general? Can you believe how often it has happened over the years here (believe me, there are more examples that are either outright deleted and which never come to light or those I just didn’t bring up due to space constraints)? Do you wonder how many reviews are actually posted by those with a financial interest in the businesses being discussed on other websites? Do you even read the comments of others and take those into consideration when looking at business reviews? How about the ethical considerations, if any, when it comes to tracking down and exposing these people? Whatever you have to say about astrotufing go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts!
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April 14th, 2010 at 8:00 am
Astroturfing: Poor Attempts at Changing Opinion (http://tinyurl.com/yajhze8)
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
April 14th, 2010 at 8:08 am
He he he.. BTW< I too have often wondered how it was that you became Food God,.. but like all Gods I don't ask I just worship and sacrifice.
Great post and keep up the reviews.
BTW, we ate at Galaxy Diner on Saturday night. Food was pretty darn good. I saw my neighbor's wife walking out of the kitchen.. I don't know if she has a concern in that place or not.. but I woudn't be surprised as her husband is head chef at a one of the big resutrants in downtown St. Paul.
Lolo had the meatloaf btw.. best I've ever had.
April 14th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Astroturfing or other misleading comments are not only dishonest for everyone involved, but it can get you into legal problems with the Federal Trade Commission. Do a search on Google related to the FTC’s new endorsement guidelines, and see that they clearly apply to blogs and these type of internet postings. Granted, I don’t think we’ll ever see the day where the FTC is handling complaints about mom and pop restaraunts in Suburbville, MN (I sure hope that the Feds never care this much about every comment posted on the internet). But Astroturfers take pause and realize that this type of behavior is classified as under “Unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce…”
April 14th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Should restaurants bullshit you on rhe web? RT @SouthMetroNews Astroturfing: Poor Attempts at Changing Opinion (http://tinyurl.com/yajhze8)
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
April 14th, 2010 at 9:06 am
It happens everywhere – think about those “best of” lists – and then think about who spends the advertising dollars in those publications. hmmmmm . . .
April 14th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Astroturfing is awesome. I don’t know what you’re talking about Bill.
Everyone knows the best part about a new restaurant’s comments section at Lazy Lightning is watching Bill lay the smack down on the astroturfers. It sure beats reading the unchecked, senseless drivel in the comments on a lot of other sites.
April 14th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Right on. The thing is, after a while you can spot these things almost immediately. They actually follow a formula to a degree:
- Post shows up with username like “excited customer” and “1 comment”.
- Even though the place has been open for only three days, commenter raves about almost all 100 items on the menu saying “I’ve tried almost everything on the menu and it has all been great!” (note the exclamation mark)
- Savvy astroturfers will throw in the following curveball: “Well, except for the (insert really unusual, bottom-of-the-menu item that nobody would order anyway like grape leaves)…but that’s just because I don’t like (insert main ingredient of that item).”
- Post will give detailed praise for the entire interior of the restaurant. “The 12 red leather chairs really worked well with the mission style fixtures, subway tile above the bathroom sink, black-and-white photos of Frank Lloyd Wright homes and the piped in Prairie Home Companion over the sound system.”
- Post will continue with comments on owners that suggest they had a 2-hourlong conversation with them while eating their BLT. e.g. “The owners were genuine, welcoming and I hear are from a small island off the coast of Sardinia where they and their three children, Mario, Mary Magdalene and Tito studied ancient pasta making in a small red brick building just off the beautiful harbor!”
- Post will next make a comment that nobody besides the ownership or friends would ever remember: “In June, they plan to have Bette Midler karaoke contests every other Wednesday at 6:45 p.m.!”
- Scattered throughout will be nonsensical hyperbole: “I lived in New York City for 12 years and this pizza would blow NY places out of the water!!!” or “this burger with cheese was like nothing I’ve ever had before!!!”
- Post will finish with “I plan on eating here just about every week. You should get over there and see for yourself!”
- Extra credit earned by insulting Bill and his language.
Some examples…from Ramy’s:
http://www.lazylightning.org/johnnys-chicago-style-beef-and-hotdogs-apple-valley-mn#comments (Scroll down to comments 50 and 52).
http://www.lazylightning.org/applewood-rustic-grille-burnsville-mn#comments (Comments 13, 15, 31, 40)
http://www.lazylightning.org/mainstreet-after-hours-lakeville-mn#comments
(comment 12)
April 14th, 2010 at 10:38 am
ACLR, I’d rather the FTC stay out of the Internet.
Julie, at least you can be happy to know that whatever comes up here is not affected in any way by money.
Joey, heh.
April 14th, 2010 at 11:41 am
While I have no vested interest in any restaurant (hope that it’s spelled right), I do enjoy the reviews and the comments to follow. Maybe you should revisist each restaurant another time within say 3-4 months, or when the alleged budget nazi allows. Maybe each place has worked out the bugs, if the review was bad. Also, perhaps if others felt less intimidated by posting that they had a relation to the business they would. Sometimes the comments section gets a little tough. Most of the time it makes reading a lot more fun. Would I not go to a restaurant if there was a bad review, probably would not change my mind if I wanted to anyway. Some people are way to picky and need to just be patient and enjoy.
April 14th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
You are the top google result in all but one of those restaurant names (Parkway Grille is higher, for me, anyway).
Not surprised at all that this goes on.
It seems like these restaurant owners and friends would spend their time figure out how to build a site that would become the top result on Google rather than astroturfing.
April 14th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
http://www.lazylightning.org/rack-shack-bbq-burnsville-mn#comment-49934
Bill, when should I expect payment for you borrowing my intellectual property? Or is the first case a cease and dismiss? I don’t think there’s anything fuzzy about this situation; I posted on 4/12/10 and you, after reading my comment, posted your blog on 4/14/10 ;).
FWIW, Kami is a decent restaurant for AYCE sushi. I rate it better than Kyoto in Eagan as it has more items on the ACYE menu to choose from. Although the service at Kami can be pretty slow, even when there’s only a few other tables in the restaurant besides your own.
April 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
It’s kinda funny, that I originally found this site due to an internet search for restaurant review “Osaka”.
After reading Bill’s review & the comments, I knew that this was not an ordinary web-site.
As I continued to read on, I was quite surprised & pleased that “Astroturfers” were called out. It also has influenced my purchasing from places that have attempted such a lame way of affecting buying decisions.
April 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Actually I wrote this post on Saturday. I haven’t written anything since as I have been in Seattle
all week.
But hey if you want payment I can give you a penny for your thoughts. :-)
April 14th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
I really enjoy the astroturfing attempts and responses to astroturfers. It’s funny how obvious it usually is before Bill even calls them out.
Bill, It might be respectful to post a TOS or something that let’s commenters know that, although certain information will not be published (i.e. e-mail addresses), other personally identifiable information might be exposed if you get busted astroturfing or doing something similar. I think it would be ethical to do that IMHO.
April 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Such an issue has been around as long as there are public places where other public places/business are discussed.
I can recall an episode of the BBC America version(original) of Hells Kitchen where Gordon Ramsey was checking out some Bed and Breakfast in Scotland. One of the workers was shocked at his comments mentioning that recent guests have loved their visit. Even showing the online comment. Later it was discovered that one of the managers or an owner was going to various travel sites and posting positive comments as part of a marketing strategy.
American Idol regularly has validated the idea that people close to an individual, or a resource are often the absolute worst people to criticize that person/resource. It requires someone that can step back from their natural tendencies and their interests to be able to provide useful criticism. Thus owners, and friends of owners shouldn’t be shocked when opinions of others clash significantly with their own opinion. Instead what they should do is review the criticism and weigh it against the target market they are shooting for. If the critic isn’t in the market you are targeting, perhaps their review has little validity. But if the criticism is coming from your target market, then you really should take a look internally
Considering most things reviewed here are reviewed by people that #1, have money, #2, spend money, and #3 eat, it’s rare that a review by people with no investment in a business should be ignored.
April 14th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
MSPD’s post was stuck in the spam filter so I highly suggest you read it if you haven’t seen it: http://www.lazylightning.org/astroturfing-poor-attempts-at-changing-opinion#comment-50052
Almost as hilarious as the psycho on the Census thread.
April 14th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
That’s a close one. :)
April 14th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Heh, 90% of the time when I read this site I don’t delve into the comments, but I had to check out all the links to the astroturfing examples. Pretty good stuff, and when I read them – it sounds so much like a press-release rather than an actual person talking. Maybe my clue should be “if they don’t have a single slightly-negative thing to say about the place”, the astroturf radar should go off
April 14th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
There’s a lot of people out there who have a very unsophisticated knowledge of the Internet and how websites, blogs, social media, etc. work. Not just the technical aspects, but the cultural norms and standards as well. I guess I’m not entirely surprised that a fair number of people who open restaurants fit into this population. That said, I know there are a lot of them who are above-board and don’t do this either.
April 15th, 2010 at 8:49 am
[...] Roehl addresses, at length, something we’ve often thought about: How to spot and deal with “astroturf,” supposedly grass-roots comments that actually come from people with a vested business interest in [...]
April 15th, 2010 at 11:47 am
great post Bill
what do you call it when blog panders to their advertisers? a virtual BJ?
a prime example is Crispin Cider and the Heavy Table. Crispin is apparently a big sponsor of Heavy Table.
But there is nothing local about Crispin Cider except the owner and business mail box. The product is made in CA with apples from all over. The worst offender is the Honeycrisp Cider thats NOT even made with Honeycrisp apples. I am always offended by that product as it really makes it feel like its a MN cider……NOT!!!
Heavy Table which is a wonderful resource has helped propagate the notion that Crispin is part of the eat local parade.
April 15th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
I get where you’re going Dan, but I’m not sure the comparison holds any water. If you have a problem with Crispin not “really” being a Minnesota company you should back off on the nonsense implying Honeycrisp is a Minnesota apple. Like Crispin, it was started here but is grown all over the northeastern U.S. and eastern Canadian provinces.
From what I understand, Crispin is headquartered here and all of their employees (albeit only a few total) work here. I would venture to guess they chose California for production because of the availability of cidery, access to ingredients and distribution. I would challenge they are much MORE “Minnesotan” than the apple you cite. (Besides, who the hell cares…I don’t see where anyone is holding up Crispin as a great Minnesota company).
Personally, I have about as much problem with this as I do with Honeycomb cereal not being made of actual honeycombs.
April 15th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Dan,
The Heavy Table is pretty upfront and clear about their relationship with Crispin. I have advertisements (Google and not local) and free giveaways that are sponsored by businesses (all local in my case) so I really don’t have much room to talk I guess. But, that being said, I know how much money it costs to run a website and do all the things that benefit everyone else. Here’s a quick run down of the expenditures I’ve had in the last month to write stuff up here:
1. $46 at Sea Salt
2. $34 and change at Rack Shack
3. $7.38 at Raising Cane’s
4. $5 for Curt’s Salsa (they have sent me two jars after noticing the review, one of which I will give away beginning tomorrow).
5. $11 at India Palace
6. $300 at City Pages stole my photography and refused to pay me for it.
7. $100 in Internet costs
We’re talking over $500 ($200 if you don’t count City Pages stealing my stuff and not paying for it like they should–fucking assholes) in just one month. I am quite happy to accept the advertising dollars I do and whatever gift certificates and items I’m provided to give away to readers.
The best we can do as good website authors is to ensure that our readers know what we’re doing and how we’re doing it. Even without the FTC’s stupid regulations I would never, ever, ever, ever, take money from a restaurant owner to do a review without being quite clear what happened (e.g. “I received two meals, two drinks, and a dessert as part of their ‘family and friends preview night.’ So feel free to take this review with as big of a grain of salt as you require.”)
YMMV.
April 15th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
The Honeycrisp apple was developed with MN tax dollars at the University of MN Horticultural Research Center. It took almost 2 decades to develop this apple so if thats not a MN pedigree then I don’t what is. Did not the state legislature anoint it as the state apple in 2006? The patent is held by University of MN also.
Furthermore the apple grows best in a northern climate and will not properly ripen in some climates like Washington or CA.
My contacts tell me, the only reason Crispin has not been sent a cease and desist letter from University of MN is due to an administrative screw up when the name Honey crisp was registered as a trademark, otherwise this bogus name association would have been deep sixed by a team of legal shirts.
Da they are using a national brand name apple to associate themselves with – kinda smart on one hand but as I say offensive to others who work in the apple industry.
So most apple growers in MN find that Honeycrisp Cider offensive. Heavy Table is a very ethical blog and I promote it to my friends, However they have implied by their lack of other words that it might be local, NOT!!!!! theres no local ingredients – talk about greenwashing – geez.
Honey baked hams got sued by some national honey organizations some years ago when it was discovered no honey in them there hams.
Your honeycomb analogy seems kinda lame since its not really an ingredient MSPD.
Edit by Bill to change “Bill” to “MSPD” in the last sentence.
April 15th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Dan, I have modified your comment above to properly reflect who you were referring to.
Let’s get this back on topic as Crispin and its business relationship with the Heavy Table is advertising, not astroturfing. Thanks.
April 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Dan Detard-
I’m the producer of the Heavy Table.
I wanted to point out that we’ve been clear since before it even launched that “Honey Crisp [is] named for the organic honey used in its production, not for Honeycrisp apples” and we have never implied otherwise. We also approve all sponsored content and advertisement on the site before it goes live. We have turned money down when a company, organization or ad campaign does not fit with our readership’s standards.
Our audience is generally very savvy: advertisers and sponsors choose the Heavy Table when they’re comfortable having their brand in front of our discerning readership.
MSPD and Bill have already summarized my other points.
Thanks for reading the Heavy Table and sharing your opinion — we take all feedback like this seriously.
Cheers,
-Aaron
April 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
The Crispin cider is not Honeycrisp (like the apple), it’s Honey Crisp.
April 15th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
They should change the name. The honeycrisp apple is the best apple ever created (that is until I can get my hands on a SweeTango and determine which is better).
Confusing and/or misleading consumers is a pretty tacky method of doing business.
I think there needs to be a disclaimer before someone can post/comment on a restaurant review/thread warning them that if they are related or have an interest in the success of the particular restaurant they are trying to comment on, they need to disclose it. Would probably reduce astroturfing by 20-40%.
April 15th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Dan,
May I suggest that taste is a subjective sense? I,in my tasting opinion, found the BEST tasting apple at the MN Arboretum last fall. It was one of those “numbered” apples that haven’t received a name yet. But my most favorite apple for pies is the one and only Harrelson which is the first apple developed by the U of M. I love a tart apple pie with a good sharp cheddar cheese like Tillamook.
April 16th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Speaking of astroturfing, does Dan N grow Honeycrisp apples? :) just curious.
April 16th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
No, just someone counting down the days until Honeycrisps are in stock again at the grocers. I usually eat two or three a day.
Will, I’m going to have to attend that MN Arboretum next fall. It will be tough to top the sweet, crispy and juicy taste of the Honeycrisp though.
April 16th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Thats good Dan, just trying to stir the pot here! :)
August 17th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
I really like point #2 in your Astroturfing primer. If the businesses would spend more time/effort correcting their “mistakes” with customers, rather than posting false reviews, they’d be adding real value to their business.
April 20th, 2011 at 11:03 am
Does Scott Adams’ (from Dilbert fame) posting under an alias to clear up ‘misconceptions’ about himself count as astroturfing? He had to know he would be found out which makes me think it’s more of a publicity stunt than anything else. He makes some valid points about why he did it in his blog but I keep returning to the fact that it’s seems like a total d-bag move.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110419/ts_yblog_thecutline/the-demotion-of-dilbert-continues-no-comic-relief-for-creator
On a related note, he wrote a comic about it some time ago.
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-02-01/
April 20th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Matt, it’s “sockpuppeting” not astroturfing. From the Wikipedia page on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29
February 20th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
This is a very compelling argument. I also have spent much time to sink into this problem before. It’s interesting how people follow reviews from people we never met or talked use it as qualitative fact with as much power as our own experiences.
I think Yelp has been dealing with trust issue with businesses, and recently they has been accused of using extortion to small businesses. Honestly, I don’t see a bright future for this company unless they figure out the way to restore confidence from users and businesses.
Thank you for this article. Really interesting!
May 18th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
Way better than astroturfing: http://twentytwowords.com/2012/05/18/funny-sidewalk-sign-invites-you-to-enjoy-the-worst-meatball-sandwich-ever/