According to this article in the Star Tribune (the link will eventually die, sorry), the the Burnsville Convention and Visitors Bureau is attempting to attract visitors from both Iowa and Canada as a destination that offers more than just an overpriced parking garage.
The Convention and Visitors Bureau mentions in the article that people should want to visit Burnsville for such exciting events as the arts and jazz festival in August, the “fantastic” skiing available at Buck Hill, and a “showy horse farm” (whatever the fuck that is). They have a newly redesigned website up, which is what the entire Star Trib article is an advertisement for, here. I suppose when you spend a quarter of your marketing budget on a website redesign, you want people to visit it. IMHO, they should have done some more research before going with Internet Exposure, Inc. A quick glance at Internet Exposure’s own website should have been enough to push them in an entirely different direction.
Anyway, I took a look at the Bureau’s website and found it to be informative enough although full of embellishments. Obviously the Burnsville Convention and Visitors Bureau has an interest in ensuring that the website attracts people but the claim that Burnsville offers 90 restaurants was a bit much for me to handle so I of course took the time to dissect the listing of restaurants so you don’t have to! First off, there are only 89 restaurants listed on their website. Of that 89 over 55 are chains (local and/or national), 18 are repeats (i.e. three different Starbucks), 1 is located in a grocery store and yet another is a grocery store, and finally (Stephano’s Bistro Continental — as it is named on their website) is arguably not even worth listing.
The best part of the Star Tribune article has to be the quote at the end from Tom Hansen who is Burnsville’s Chief of Operations:
Visit the website first, then visit Burnsville, you’ll like it.
Honestly, you’re better off skipping Burnsville, especially because of their unnecessary “Heart of the City” revitalization and drop straight into Minneapolis or St Paul. You’ll pay a bit more but you’ll spend less on the gas driving back and forth between the two. If you’re interested in mass transit, stop in Bloomington instead and enjoy the same (plus many many more) of the same restaurants, shopping areas and amenities that are offered in Burnsville while riding the LRT downtown.
Related posts:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Only three Starbucks? It is hardly worth the airfare!
March 19th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Honest question. If you hate the suburbs and the South Metro so much, why do you choose to live there?
March 19th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I guess we are just supposed to move when we don’t like something instead of spending the time to discuss how to go about changing?
That’s a different mentality.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Doesn’t really answer the question. You have 0 posts about anything you like about the south metro. So why did you/do you choose to live here? I’m not trying to tell you what to do, I’m trying to understand why someone would subject themselves to living in a location they despise. You obviously have no chance of changing anything. Whether it’s your cup of tea or not, must of the people that live in the burbs do so because they like what the area has to offer.
So I ask again, honest question, why do you choose to live there?
March 19th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
At the time, it was for two reasons:
1. Proximity to work.
2. Cost.
Just because I have issues with where I reside (and honestly, I would wherever it happened to be) does not mean that I shouldn’t live there and have open and honest discussions on how to alter that. For you to insinuate that I have no chance in changing the general perception of issues that are happening in the South Metro is a little shortsighted IMHO.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Fair enough. I obviously disagree about the impact of your complaining, (considering again, that most people that live in the burbs do so because they like the burbs) but you certainly have the right to your opinion. And it’s obvious that you don’t care about what people think of your opinions or this blog, so I’ll end it here. thanks for responding.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
considering again, that most people that live in the burbs do so because they like the burbs
They like some parts of it and dislike others. There is give and take regardless of where you live.
And it’s obvious that you don’t care about what people think of your opinions or this blog
ROFL.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“They like some parts of it and dislike others. ”
Really? You’ve taken a poll on that? So you think people in the burbs all hate chain restaraunts and targets and round abouts and municiple liqiour stores and new development? I wold argue the exact opposite.
“And it’s obvious that you don’t care about what people think of your opinions or this blog
ROFL.”
ROFL all you want, you said as much many times in response to differing opinions.
Quote form Bill “Luckily it’s my site so my opinion is the only one that matters. Discussion closed.” And many more like that.
Oh, and BTW, you really should double check your math on your licqour store argument. The two existing stores made $7 million in sales last year.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Oh, and BTW, you really should double check your math on your licqour store argument. The two existing stores made $7 million in sales last year.
Sales != Profit.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Funny how you just keep deleting comments you don’t agree with, but ROFL at the thought that you aren’t open to disagreement.
Soooo telling.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I’m not quite sure what you’re on about but I haven’t deleted any of your comments.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Well then your site is broken. I’ve posted two seperate comments about the differeence between $7 million in annual sales and $450 of profit. Both have posted fine and then were gine within a couple minutes.
My appologies if it’s a glich in the site and not your doing.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Sorry, I have not received any e-mail notifications and I see nothing in the logs that state that a POST came through from your IP address other than for the recent comments which have appeared on the site.
The site has been recently updated and I am looking for “glitches”. Sorry for any problems.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
People have to “want” to go somewhere to make it a tourist destination, and since most folks like to visit places that are interesting, scenic or have some attraction I have to ask… Why? Hell the name alone tells you to keep driving. I personally find my town, Apple Valley to be a place pretty devoid of interest. Other than the Zoo, we got nothing.
We live there because 1) my wife enjoys parking on the street occasionally, 2) she grew up in the suburbs and feels comfortable there (read afraid of difference) 3) Good schools, Actually the schools are not as good in West Apple Valley, and they’re getting worse. Were we in the market for a house today, no way we’d be there.
The downside- Truly, with one or two very isolated exceptions there are no interesting places to eat south of the River. There’s NO art scene what so ever, for that matter culture, it’s hard to get around except in the car, and even then were ya gonna go? Cub?
The good thing about the Apple Valley/Burnsville Metroplex.. It’s close to better places. Our entertainment and food expenditures in town in 2008 are 0. We find ourselves in South Minneapolis or St. Paul when it comes to doing things. But really, that’s no different than most other suburbs. Some have spent more money trying to become a community (Woodbury) but in the end they’re all cut from the same mold.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Sank,
Wait, you live in the South Metro and don’t think it’s 100% awesome and totally rad?! I’m confused!
Some have spent more money trying to become a community (Woodbury) but in the end they’re all cut from the same mold.
And some have spent more money trying to become like Woodbury. Weird.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
So I ask Sank the same question. Why subject yourself to living in a place you hate? Seems to me life is to short to swim upstream the whole time. If you end up in in South Minneapolis and St. Paul, why not live there? The suburbs are what the suburbs are. Just seems to me like waste of breath to complain that the suburbs aren’t a hopping metro area. Of course, by definiton, they aren’t. They never have been and they never will be the hip, locally owned, consolidated neighborhood driven area you want. That’s why we have urban and suburban differences. Some like one, some like the other.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Sank has kids, unlike me, and likes the educational opportunities afforded them by living in District 191 (one of the top school districts in the state)?
Like I said, it’s not as cut and dried as “I like the suburbs and I’ll stay” or “I don’t like and I’ll move.”
March 19th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
well maybe not move, but you chose to live there to begin with and you choose to make a ritual about complaining about how bad you think it sucks. It’s not like someone sold you a bill of good about he suburbs. It’s not like anyone EVER said “hey move to the suburbs, its a bastion of culture unique food and diversity.” Suburbs were enver intended to be that and were never sold as such. I’m assuming you knew as much and you decided to live there anyway. It’s like someone moving to Minnesota and complaining about the cold. No one is holding a gun to their head. And complaining about a super target or a liqour store or some other chain based development moving into a suburb makes about as much sense to me as complaining about the cold in Minnesota. IMO
March 19th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I’m sorry, that’s where I completely and whole-heartedly disagree. I have been to plenty of other suburbs, outside of the MSP metro (I grew up in one, went to college in another) and found that there were plenty of non-chain “foo” there.
It’s only a recent phenomenon that this type of environment prevails and needs to be stopped.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
As I said, my wife is a suburban type. Actually the real reason we live there was we relocated from California 13 years ago. We came to Minnesota, for the first time ever, were picked up at the airport and had 48 hours to pick a house.
That being said we like our house, we like our neighbors, it’s just hindsight being 20/20, I’ve never been much of a ‘brub guy, and Apple Valley, and Burnsville and Lakeville and Eagen and all the rest are classic suburbs. They are all pretty limited in what they offer. Affordable housing, good schools low crime rates, vanilla lifestyle. You give up all the amenities I’ve already listed. So when the kids are gone and it’s me and the Mrs, we’ll reconsider where we live.
Like I said, when we want to do something fun, nice thing is it’s a 20 minute drive north..
March 19th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I’m willing to bet what you grew up and went to school is no where near what the midwest describes as a subburb.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Bowling Green isn’t a suburb, it’s a college town. Big dfference.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I grew up on th East Coast and went to school in the Midwest. I have traveled to about 30 states in the last 5 years and seen the suburbs that exist in those states and Minnesota’s suburbs (although not exclusively) is one of the few exceptions that lacks any and all “uniqueness”.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
well i have traveled extensively as well and from what I’ve seen you see one subburb you’ve seen them all. Matter of perspective I guess.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
confused, clearly you don’t get it. It’s not about love or hatred for the suburbs, or the specific choice of living here or there. It’s about making WHEREVER you live an enriching, valuable, clean, safe, successful environment. Look up “community” or “society” or “progress” in the dictionary.
Regardless of where I choose (or am forced by circumstance) to live, I am where I am. When I lived in Mac Groveland, up in St. Paul, I did what I could to improve my footprint on the community, both in my personal property/space and in participation in the betterment of the community.
Now that I live in Burnsville (regardless of why I ended up here), I do what I can, and encourage others (including by posting on this forum) to make our current home a more culturally-rich, vibrant, unique and safe place to live. I feel it is my DUTY to my community to advocate for business and amenities that contribute to those ends, as well as intelligent local government.
I applaud Bill for speaking up against what he feels is a financially irresponsible liquor store — an unnecessary and unsustainable government amenity that will be involuntarily subsidized by his neighbors and community.
I also applaud him for speaking up against poorly planned development, big box retail ubiquity and traffic patterns that are harming local commerce, safety and aesthetic value in his community.
Finally, I applaud him for speaking up against a disingenuous effort to sell Burnsville as a “vacation destination” rather than using its manpower, finances and efforts to make Burnsville an attractive place to open a business or purchase a home.
It’s not about “hating the suburbs so much” it’s about pride in your home and your community.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Bill, couldn”t help but respond to the Strib article this morning. First “Confused” either doesn’t no SHIT about Burnsville/ Apple Valley govenment or DOES. The Burnsville City govenment is run by the Burnsville Chamber of Commerce which is made up of members of the Burnsville Convention Bureau . This chamber is made up of aproximately 30% of Burnsville residents who pay BOTH residential and commercial city and Burnsville School district #191 taxes. The rest of the Chamber is made up of OUTSIDERS. The True “Heart of The City ” of Burnsville is along county 42 where the Heart of Commerce resides and where Apple Valley school district #196 collects the taxes and NOT Burnsville district #191. The Strib article stated: ” Burrill said, because state statistics show that every dollar invested in tourism returns $4.60 in state and local taxes”. What taxes is she talking about? To the Burnsville resident ,economic development means to create more commercial property taxes thus reducing residential taxes. Hopefully you understand where I’m coming from.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Will,
Hear you loud and clear and at first I would have guessed “confused” was a city person but I now pretty much sure that they live in the Lakeville/Farmington/AV metroplex… I think that they are just apathetic towards their current lifestyle or enjoy the bland attitude.
Well, all of that or they’re a troll. You decide.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Ah yes, the “troll”accusation for anyone who disagrees with our mighty blogger.
MSPD, I get where your coming from but I firmly contend that the people who live in suburbs do so because they want what the suburbs have to offer. You/Bill are in the minority about what the suburbs are all about. IMO. You think chain and big box = evil. Most people that live in the burbs don’t. I know you think that makes you smarter than most people. Maybe yes, maybe no, but once again they have a place for diverse, cultural centers…they’re called cities. That’s not really the priority of the vast majority of suburbanites. Applaud Bill’s efforts all you want if you agree with him. Most do not. Wich brings me back to my original question about why would one choose to live somewhere they obviously hate to the core?
As for the liquor store, I would first like to see our blogger get his facts and math right before making statements about how mornic the cty council is. I have no skin in the game here, but I have read enough to know that our blogger thinks for some reason it will take at least 7 years for the store to pay for itself when in fact, at $3 million a year in projected sales, it will be less than two. (well actually business finance does not work that way at all. The store will be turning a profit right away, but we’ll keep the math simple).
We can get no where in a conversation about the financial responsibility of the store unless we are being honest and accurate about the numbers.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Again, you are confusing sales numbers with profit. Sales of $400k for two stores means that they’re likely to pull in $600k for three (please note that you can go on and on about the millions in sales they do — just like the Council did the second time) but if it’s *making* $200k it will take many years for that store to pay itself off.
I won’t even bother with the rest of your comment as it’s nothing but more of the same.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
And I just confused it more whoops! That’s what I get for posting while I watch Top Chef :)
Profit of 400k for two stores means about 600k for three stores. They can have sales in the tens of millions all they like but profit is profit and that’s what you need to pay off this new development.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:51 am
Here’s the simple point you’re missing. Profit is revenue after expenses. Expenses include building/facility expenses. The 600k in profit is AFTER ALL expenses. The profit of $200k a year does not go towards paying off the building, it’s after the annual building expense.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:59 am
I really wish you would post this in the appropriate thread but:
Let’s use your logic… The two stores that are currently in operation probably require monthly rent or have been purchased, years ago, outright thus they shouldn’t require the payment of any of the bonds that the current project will.
So, if we are looking after all payments and they are making $400k, that means that after this new building goes up and requires $2 million (or more) to complete, that $400k (or $600k) will shrink until the building is paid off.
Hope that clears it up for you. I won’t respond to anymore discussion in this thread about the liquor store.
March 20th, 2008 at 7:04 am
It’s already clear as day. I’m sorry you don’t understand. The projected profit is after ALL expenses. It’s really pretty simple business financing. The problem is you’re making accusaitons/judgements about the project and the council without out understanding these basic principles.
Sorry, I can’t help you any more than that.
March 20th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I’m sory, I apparently missed where they projected profit figures for the new store. All I saw was the $400k numbers for the current stores, the sales numbers for those two stores as well as Lakeville’s new store, and the note that they would probably be able to recoup the loss in investment on the sale of the facility if they didn’t turn an acceptable profit.
Granted, the discussions were intended to be confusing between what was presented at the City Council meeting and what was discussed in the local media but that still doesn’t help to prove your point.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:06 am
confused:
As you continue to expand on your reasoning, it well SUPPORTS Bill’s original topic (ignoring the liquor store for a moment) about the absurdity of Burnsville’s government effort to promote the town as some kind of vacation destination. The guise is under the “every tourist dollar is worth four dollars in city revenue” nonsense. My response is: “Yeah…but…every new resident or small business attracted to the city is worth an exponentially larger amount of dollars in the community.” Vacationers come and go, yet residents live and spend year after year.
Your “suburb is a suburb is a suburb” further supports this notion. If correct, trying to attract vacationers, most of whom are coming from….drum roll….a suburb of some other city is futile; perhaps even laughable.
I would love to see someone at City Hall have the vision to do something unique like propose that instead of becoming a top vacation destination, Burnsville become the state’s capital of small business / entrepreneurship. I’m sure that if they examine the tax and licensing codes, there are numerous ways to make Burnsville attractive to small, local businesses and/or incentivize them to move or open here. We NEED them anchoring the Heart of the City, not another Starbucks or Cub Foods whose profits go offshore.
And there’s where it touches your “big box is not evil” comment. As an owner of two small businesses in Burnsville, my wife spends nearly every dollar of her operating expenses (raw materials, services, utilities) AT BURNSVILLE BUSINESSES. Beyond operating expense, most of her profit stays in Burnsville as well. And finally, she has a good network of referrals with other local businesses. Her dollars are recycled in the community — round, and round, and round. Her businesses are a win-win for everyone in the community.
I ask: Where do McDonald’s operating expenses go? Where do Walmart’s profits go? Are they reinvesting in the community? How many business-to-business referrals do local entrepreneurs get from Bed Bath & Beyond? How much does the community benefit financially, culturally and in identity from having these kinds of businesses dominate every inch of the city?
I’m not anti-big box personally. But, I do think big box dominance of communities is harmful and I think those businesses, as well as local government can do better to insist that if you’re going to plop a hundred thousand square foot store in the city, it’s impact is felt in community return, just as much as it is in its presence. I’m not anti-Target, but I worry about what a third SuperTarget in a six mile stretch is going to do to the community.
Instead of wasting time on a “branding effort”, Burnsville could be working with big box retailers to incentivize them to prominently feature products of local businesses. If that sounds silly, it’s not — Target sells tamales from St. Paul’s El Burrito Mercado, some of the best available in the Twin Cities. They also offer programs where dollars spent are returned to local schools. I appreciate Target’s efforts to lift up local small business over Walmart’s effort to crush any/all competition by undercutting the prices (in exchange for crap products and questionable wages).
But instead, they’re too busy fussing with a city slogan and trying to dupe unsuspecting vacationers into coming here. As evidenced by developers continuing to pull out of the Heart of the City project, not enough is being done to collaborate with businesses to make Burnsville an attractive place to conduct business. I’ve personally connected the city leaders with restauranteurs with the hopes of them filling the beautiful spot with river valley and downtown views on the north east corner of the Grande Marketplace building. Vacant for years…I guarantee you that unattractive licensing/regulation/finance terms are keeping entrepreneurs out (similar to what keeps developers turning away from the PAC/hotel/office/parking ramp project. There are all kinds of Burnsville-based contractors they could line up, and all kinds of incentives and/or favorable terms they can arrange to get that spot filled up quickly. Then, it would be one more attractive feature to prospective condo owners to help get the nearby vacant properties filled up.
They should be bending over backwards to make it happen.
I could go on, but I’m afraid I’ll stray off-topic (and further bore the hell out of everyone, including myself).
Basically, we can all make two choices: Take a complacent attitude and encourage the status quo and then one day wake up and discover we’re the new Brooklyn Center with blighted strip malls, a half-abandoned shopping center, and millions of cars passing through on overstuffed interstates that were slapped across the community, or continue to challenge what’s perceived as easy and popular, inspire debate and thought about how to spark progress and a great community in which to live and do business.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:26 am
I’m not anti-Target, but I worry about what a third SuperTarget in a six mile stretch is going to do to the community.
It’s going to bring people closer together you see! People here *want* that! They want to drive less than 1 mile to the nearest Target instead of 1.5 miles more because that justifies them in driving their SUVs with one passenger to fill it full of processed foods and vegetables shipped 1000s of miles from Mexico, Peru and California.
In addition, it affords Apple Valley with the opportunity to use the tax dollars gained from another “new” business to fund a $2 million dollar liquor store that puts back a minimal amount of money into the general fund under a grandfathered law about municipal liquor stores that should have expired as soon as the city grew larger than the law permits. If anything, small and local business owners should have the opportunity to make money in the alcohol business like they do in so many other towns but the city prefers that it benefits the general fund, and their egos, directly while they one up Lakeville for taking over several acres of public park land to build an obscene and awful store with a large parking lot.
re: Brooklyn Center.
That’s exactly where Apple Valley is headed. With tons of cheap and quickly constructed townhomes rapidly aging, they will eventually attract lower and lower incomes as those that have money continue to move further and further away from the city and the businesses (of any type) struggle to survive and eventually ditch their efforts in Apple Valley and move along with the money.
Sad state of affairs.
March 20th, 2008 at 10:34 am
MSPD, i wasn’t really commenting on whether it makes sense for Burnsville to be marketing itself as a tourist destination, rather asking a general question. It is very apparent that the theme of much of this blog is that everything in the suburbs sucks. Thus my original question. I appologize if it lead to an off topic discussion. I do not know enough about Burnsville’s marketing plan to comment directly on that.
MSPD, I think our core disagreement comes into what people in the suburbs are looking for in a “community”. It appears what you want in a community and what most suburbanites want are not very similar. I’ve spent time living in urban settings, surburbs and rural communities. The gernal pupulace is looking for very different things in each of those places. It seems like what you want out of a community is more condusive to urban living. My experience is that suburbanites define their community more by their immediate neighborhood and the people/famalies living there. Not by the diversity or local ownership of business. For most suburbanites, affordable housing, safety, better schools, and good neighborhood to raise a family, etc are the priorities. Culture, etc, is not. Some call it apathetic, I call in a lifestyle choice. Differnt perspective I guess.
Having said that I very much respect your opinion and your ability to articulate it. It is easy to get trapped in the “My way is the best way to live and everyone should follow suit mentality”, and rail against EVERYTHING. (hmmm sounds familiar). You appear to be looking at these issues from a very level headed, knowledgable manner. Good talking with you.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:00 am
This could be a whole new blog..
Couple comments..
I’m not anti-Target, but I worry about what a third SuperTarget in a six mile stretch is going to do to the community.
Fact is Target, or any other non-government sponsored company (Like a city run liquor store) isn’t going to build anything where they don’t think they have opportunity. The Super Target in Apple Valley- Pre-Burnsville, and Pre-Lakeville was one of their highest volume stores in the chain. People voting with their feet, have overwhelmed that store for years, as any weekend visitor can attest. Same goes for Cub, where the complaint that there are three cubs in walking distance of each other? In each case the companies involved are trying to take some pressure off these locations.
Wal-Mart would do the same only the public hates them more so they have a difficult time getting their projects approved, that and they’re assholes about how they go about getting approval.
Fact is Target, and Wal-Mart, and Cub do give money back to the community in taxes and in flat out grants. In Target’s case, 5% of profits.
It’s also a fact that these big box stores are tough competitors, predatory in some cases (Wally) and do drive the small guys out of business. I would make the argument that the guys they drive out are the folks who can’t change or can’t compete, but there are examples. Von Hanesens has a very nice growing business based in Apple Valley,, the provide a service that Target couldn’t hope to provide with their meat dept. Wet Pet succesfully stays in buiness against Petco and Petsmart. Why? They’re in a high touch business where people need service and those big boxes can’t provide it.
Westwood Sports- great business, matter of fact they put another small hockey oriented sporting good store, Mr Hockey out of business, do we care?
Ace Hardware, Half Price Books… there’s several examples. You need a mix of both, that’s why the suburbanites driving into South Minneapolis to escape the crappy Applebees and Grizzley’s of the ‘burbs are passing the Urbanites going the other way to buy food and essentials.
AND, re Brooklyn Center- I would argue.. we’re already there folks. Valley Middle School, which draws from these cheap housing developments in Apple Valley and Burnsville, can no longer pass their Achievement exams and have become another school struggling with academics, and serious discipline issues. Contrary to what you see at the new school, Falcon Ridge. Apple Valley High is headed that way.
Greenwood, Westview, Southview and Ceder Park Elementary schools have social workers on staff to pass out furnature, clothing, teach parenting skills, serve meals too families etc. to deal with their changing profiles.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Same goes for Cub, where the complaint that there are three cubs in walking distance of each other?
Believe me, if Cub put up yet another store, in Apple Valley, I’d be all over them for that. Thankfully, Cub is in three different cities and I can’t complain all that much about it but two SuperTargets in one city (nevermind the fact that they are 1.5 miles apart) is a bit much for me.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Let’s be real here. The Cub in AV/Rosemount is exaclty one stop light farther away from each other than the two AV targets. At least with the new AV Target is pulling in Roseount $$.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:23 am
And the two apple valley targets are 2.8 miles apart (doesn’t change you gripe but we should at least be accurate)
March 20th, 2008 at 11:32 am
You’re right, they’re 2.1232254 miles as the crow flies and the two Cub Foods, which you referenced as being “one stop light further” (which isn’t true when we’re being so specific) are 3.6114094 miles as the crow flies apart.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Target is at pilot knob and target is at shannon parkway. There is one stop light between those roads.
I didn’t know people had wings?
March 20th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I guess it depends on how you go. If you take CR-42 there’s an additional traffic light at Diamond Path.
I won’t be contributing anymore to this thread. It’s boring. Enjoy.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
THink of it as the Rosemount Target. It’s going to draw from Rosemount and Farmington. Hey, that gives us a chance to “steal” tax dollars from those towns!
‘Tis all about the real estate deal.
March 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Sank, just one note on your post — my son goes to Cedar Park elementary despite the fact that I can hit Echo Park E.S. with a well-hit tee shot from my front lawn (OK…maybe a drive and a wedge).
This is a complete tangent but the new magnet school program in District 196, which is what attracted us to CP over Echo Park, should be held up as a success story to stem the tide of of the things you are talking about. I can’t speak to things prior to this year, but I really appreciate the quality and direction of Cedar Park. (In case you’re interested, it’s a Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) magnet).
Without getting into the details, we have recently had some very personal and unique interactions with the Cedar Park leadership and teachers concerning my son, and I feel incredibly blessed that my son is in their hands and confident in the education he is getting there. They are doing some truly amazing things. I look forward to sending my other son and daughter there when they become kindergarten age.
A lot of this change came about because of the participation of vocal community members.
OK…tangent over. Thanks for the time.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I think a good example of what I would like Apple Valley and other suburbs to be like would be the communities I grew up in in Ohio. Specifically the neighboring communities of Blue Ash, Ohio and Montgomery, Ohio.
Not all suburbs are alike and wanting culture, variety, and convenience is not a pipe dream. Blue Ash has been nationally recognized in magazines and books such as 50 Fabulous Places to Raise Your Family The communities have a symbiotic relationship, Blue Ash is where people work, Montgomery is where people live.
Some of the qualities I appreciate in a suburb include:
true downtown
sidewalks
a sense of community
interesting and varied architecture
large community events
extensive recreation facilities
top school system
art and music events
the ability to have a large yard
sense of pride in condition of yard & house
As I started thinking about what I like about my hometown I realized something I hadn’t ever really thought about before….think of any big box store you want. I can’t think of a single one that is in the city limits of Blue Ash or Montgomery. Target? No. Walmart? No. Best Buy? No. Circuit City? No. Kohl’s No. Myers? No. Not a single one. Are they in the surrounding communities? Sure are.
Now as much as I’d love to find many of the qualities I list above in the next home we buy, for me a top school system trumps them all. Do I think my hometown is perfect? Hell no. Public transit for instance simply does not exist there.
March 20th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Wow, Kim well said. Congratulations on summing up 45 comments worth of content. :)