According to this article over at the Star Tribune, the residents of my most favorite Apple Valley “neighborhood”, Cobblestone Lake, are quite upset over the prospect of Apple Valley allowing below market rental properties to be located near to their homes.
The city’s planning commission will hold a public hearing Wednesday on a proposal from the Dakota County Community Development Agency (CDA) to build below-market-rate rental housing for seniors and working families near Pilot Knob Road.
Dozens of residents have shown up at public meetings in the past two weeks to raise questions and fears about the plans, which outline a 60-unit senior apartment building in Cobblestone Lake and 45 townhouses just outside the neighborhood. Most concern centers on the workforce housing, with some people worried the townhouses will bring more crime to the area.
Apparently, the residents of this overpriced neighborhood who feel that their cookie-cutter homes are “custom” and special should not have to brave the possibility of increased crime and are using excuses such as this being a departure from the original intent of the area, etc as a reason to keep the “undesirables” away from their little cramped hellhole. I guess that famed Apple Valley Liquor Store #3 isn’t all that attractive when it might be fueling senior citizens to commit crimes from their walkers! God forbid we allow hard working Minnesotans to live near overpriced and pastel colored sardine can homes, we must forbid this!
Face it people, Apple Valley will see a spike in crime especially as the outer suburbs age and cheap housing becomes more available on the sprawling landscape. While no one wants the crime rates to increase and no one likes the idea of “affordable” housing to crop up in their area, to claim that because you were told that you were going to live in some perfect world is no excuse to start bitching now.
My favorite part of the Star Tribune article are the comments. Veiled racism is a great way to prove a point, don’t you think? While there are only four, they all seem to center on the same central idea. My personal favorite is this comment:
Your crime rate will soar and your property values will plummet. Why? Massive numbers of blacks, asians, arabs, mexicans, and other immigrants both legal and illegal, will move-in! You will have gang and drug problems! Your property and other taxes will skyrocket! Your fears are valid. Just say no. And just say yes to real immigration reform!
The ignorance in our communities is simply astounding!
Should the residents of Cobblestone Lake be immune to affordable housing just because they paid more for their homes than others or should the “working man” have the same opportunities afforded to them and be offered the chance to prove that they too deserve to live in close proximity to those more well off than they are?
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August 4th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I can’t believe people read the Strib comments. Especially in posts like that. Damn. You have balls, Bill.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I read the strib comments all the time. Then my husband and I laugh mercilessly at people. And cry a little over the idiocy too…
August 4th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I live within a mile of all this going on, and I want this housing to be built, and for other reasons not. (joking)
Those snobs and their cookie-cutter houses with the funny colors trying to be trendy need to wake up. I believe it is their development that spouts “for every price range” but the lowest price is almost $300,000. I guess every price for the rich and those very rich that don’t mind living with those just “rich”.
The Cobblestone housing will probably bring up the price of my house, but the new housing, almost identical to mine, just across Pilot Knob won’t, and the “affordable housing” won’t either. When I go to sell, there will be another one for brand new, for just a bit more, and some less expensive that are new as well. Who is going to buy a house that is four years old when you have these other options??
I don’t think the criminals are going to move to Apple Valley so they can taunt the rich folk across the street. It will take more than one development of “affordable” to make the difference. Besides, there isn’t much land available for it anyways with all the rich people and other developments filling in.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:46 am
When these people who live in Cobblestone moved here where did they think they were moving? Its a gravel pit in the middle of some fairly (lower) cost Rosemount and East Apple Valley neighborhoods. It’s not exactly Lake Minnetonka.
This is a group whining, bitching insecure people who overbought in a currently VERY tough time in our economy. Now their worried about low income living. Let them worry about re-painting there NOW faded homes and mow their lawns 3 times a week.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Here’s the real irony. The loudest critics of the proposal are those that live in the “affordable” part of the development, ie. townhomes, cottage homes or the cookie cutter centex and ryland homes. Everyone needs to feel better than someone else. Of course, the wanna be snobs in the custom homes think their sh*t don’t stink either. Bottomline, you live in a reclaimed gravel pit with a big storm drainage pond in the middle.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Oh yeah, and a bunch of homes are up for sale too. Quite the bargain to be had. Could it be because their interest only mortgage is getting too expensive?
August 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
They were told that by purchasing $300k – $1 million homes that they would be special and be treated to a SuperTarget, chain nail and hair salons, as well as chain restaurants right next to their homes situated on flooded, shallow gravel pits now called “lakes” packed tight against their neighbors who were also overextended due to their massive homes, expensive cars, and credit card debt.
What they weren’t old was that they would be shoulder to shoulder with those of less affluence. That’s why they are pissed off. Poor bastards. Suckered into buying those expensive ticky-tacky, cookie-cutter homes to live the “good life” and now they have to deal with drunken low-income people in their utopian neighborhood from hell. Awww.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
You know why they’re really pissed off?? Those that want to move and can’t sell their homes. Those that are staying only have one working income. They’re one paycheck away from those subsidized rentals themselves.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
interesting that bill calls cobblestone homes cookie cutter when he lives in a neighborhood full of the same townhomes over and over. noone else in cobblestone has the same home as mine. i doubt there is much duplication of floorplans/elevations in the custom homes.
quoting something you said is pretty lame. i have heard no one complain that this development will bring too many non whites. it has nothing to do with race. its not even that people dont believe there should be low income housing. the question people are asking is if this is the appropriate spot. its not close to employers (except target and they have enough employees). If this housing is aimed for people making 30,000 a year (household) then put it close to the jobs, put it in central village so these residents dont have to drive to work at cub, best buy, rainbow and other service oriented jobs.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
cory,
First off, I live where I could afford to live at the time I purchased my home and now I cannot sell and move where I would prefer to live. At the time of purchase it was the most affordable area to live within close proximity to where I worked at the time. While I have changed jobs twice since and now work in close proximity to wherever I live, it just wasn’t in the cards at the time. That said, if I had the means and the opportunity to live elsewhere (even within Apple Valley) I would do so, today.
Second, while I am not thrilled with the idea of increased crime, I am not whining to the Planning Commission to stop this from happening in the exact location I live. It’s a fact of life regardless of where you live and it’s not something you should be able to stop just because you paid more for your home than someone else. For residents to claim that they were duped by their builder is just ridiculous. Get off your high horse, suck it up, and live with it until you can relocate elsewhere. These people apparently have the means to purchase $300k to $1 million homes, they can afford to purchase somewhere else once they sell their current home.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “quoting something you said is pretty lame”. I quoted the article and a comment posted to that article. You might not have heard anyone that claims it is due to non-whites and those with lower incomes but that doesn’t mean it’s not true and while I don’t know who the commenter is that posted that there will be non-whites moving in, I do know that a healthy dose of racism does prevail in the Twin Cities which is evidenced by KQRS and their rabid and loyal following.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Hey Cory,
Didn’t you buy a home out of foreclosure?
August 5th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
cory,
It looks like an appropriate spot to me. Those employees need only walk across the street (Pilot Knob) to get to the bus station (and, therefore, all of those jobs at the Mall of America, Bloomington hotels and beyond). It’s as good a place as any.
So now that that theory is debunked, if not racism or elitism, what’s the real impetus behind the “Not In My Back Yard” sentiment?
The folks packing that meeting need to take a good, hard look in the mirror and either flat-out come out and tell everyone they don’t want “those kinds of people” in their exclusive neighborhood or accept the situation and embrace their neighbors, no matter who they are.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
MSPD, thanks for your excellent insight as always. Your comment made me think of a post I read just this morning entitled, very disturbing news that hits close to home which talks about how they love the varied cultures that reside in their neighborhood.
August 5th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Personal attacks are not permitted and any offenders will have their comments deleted and their IPs banned. I hope I’ve been clear.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
well now I wanna know what’s been deleted.
I think the cobblestone homes are fun to look at. I love that they’re all different colors. Reminds me of Holland and all the fun colored houses there.
Bring on the “low-income” people. Maybe if we give them a chance to move out of Minneapolis, and Brooklyn Park, lives will be changed for the better. (I realize this is really generalized) spread everyone around more, offer more opportunity for integration and let everyone learn from each other.
Sorry, that’s the 4 years of working in Social Services in me.
Of course, I quit my job today, so maybe I should look into this low-income housing.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:13 am
What ever happened to free speech? Why can’t people who live in a community disagree? I live in the “custom” homes and have worked very hard to get where I am so I personally take offense to most of these comments. We all have the right to free speech and most of us who live in this neighborhood have a significant investment in it and have concerns over this new development. I could care a less what others think of me or my neighbors because of this. The bottom line is that we are trying to protect our investment here.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Scott,
I’m not quite sure why you think we are infringing on your free speech. You are free to say pretty much whatever you want about whatever you want (well, not on this site but to Apple Valley’s Planning Commission and City Council) but that doesn’t mean that others may think you are ignorant for taking the low road.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
On that note, since you are clearly the highest form of Socialist slum, keep posting your petty blogs about those who have worked harder than you and have more to protect. Good luck with your endeavors and good bye- Genius!
August 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Scott, thanks for proving my point, I appreciate it.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Where do you get all these idiots, Bill?
August 7th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I think you should change the title to “Cobblestone residents hate poor people.”
August 7th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Nuthn worse than whiney rich folks. F’n NIMBY bastards, and what’s wrong with a little socialism to keep those guys in check. :) Scooter doesn’t sound like the sort that “worked his way up” from the bottom, he’d be a little more humble.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:27 am
How about the fact that people that live in Cobblestone Lake mostly have children that they are concerned about. How about the fact that most of these people are HIGHLY educated and work from 6am-6pm every night to support their families. How about the fact that these people obviously take pride in their homes. Is that not ok? Is it not ok to be worried about the well being of children? Is it not ok that there are not Orrin Thompson homes from 1974 with weeds 10 feet hight? Pride! It is the American Dream. The dream in which all want to live…rich, poor, selfish, kind, ignorant and modest dream about. The freedom to live in any part of the U.S.A. is the sweetest vacation anyone can have. Concern is the only “concern” these people have. The right to have concern about their dream.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:33 am
How silly of me, I completely forgot that highly educated residents are the only ones that can keep up the exterior of their homes properly, they are the only people that have children and work between 6 and 6, and they are the only people who care about their children’s wellbeing.
Shame on me for being so naive!
August 8th, 2008 at 10:04 am
“Orrin Thompson homes from 1974″
How many years until we’re bitching about the trashy cookie cutter homes over in that ghetto, Cobblestone?
Oh wait.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Concerned, the scoffing is advanced by exactly the concerns you point out. I’ll try to put it simply: Point A — Plans to build senior and affordable housing become a reality on land that has been known to be zoned for senior and affordable housing for years. Point B — Residents with this land in their backyards flood a local government meeting and statements are made at the meeting and around the web about “concern for children” and high crime rates.
There’s a whole lot of space between point A and point B and, logically, there’s no other possible path between the two than age and socioeconomic discrimination/intolerance.
I ask you again, point blank…why is it that at the mention of adding senior and mixed economic development, people leap to fearing for the safety of their children and talking about crime in their neighborhood? Be honest.
God forbid the children of those concerned lawyers, doctors and financiers have to deal with encountering and (eek) sharing THEIR community playground with the sons and daughters of a Mexican roofer or a Somali cab driver. Certainly, nothing good can come of having THOSE people so close to our homes.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:21 am
As always, MSPD puts my thoughts and sentiments into a concise post that gets right down to it. Well done.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:22 am
MSPD, everyone knows senior citizen gangs are dangerous and a menace to any society.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:34 am
at least scott spelled genius correctly.
in my experience as a child protection worker, people who work 12 hours days are typically ignoring their children’s needs. stereotype? yep. true? probably.
can a person be slum? I don’t think it’s an adjective, is it? nope. when used in the singular form, it is in fact a verb. so you go be verb, Bill! Slum away!
August 8th, 2008 at 11:37 am
dawnmarie, I suppose since the Cobblestone haters are stereotyping, the other side of the fence should be permitted to as well. Fair’s fair — oh wait, not when you’re dealing with these people.
Hmm, anyone who isn’t a Cobblestone resident has to play by their rules only. There, that should Right things.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
FYI: Please don’t think the insaine comments you read reflect all residents of CL. There are a fair share of us who think many of the residents here are nuts too. I come from humble means and worked hard like everyone else does and ended up buying a townhome in CL because I liked the look and the location, nothing else. (I actually use to live in Bill’s Neighborhood). I have no problem with the senior/townhome plans and think everyone deserves a fair shot.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I live in CL and when I first heard about this proposal I was really against it for the same reasons anyone would be: crime increases, property decreases, overtaxed roads and amenities. I went to one of the AV planning commission meetings and listened to what the CDA and the developer had to say. My feelings have changed somewhat–I think the senior and townhome proposals will be okay. I was very impressed with the screening process for the tenants, their guidelines, and their management style. CDA has their act together and will provide a quality place to live. You can’t argue that. I am sorry you feel everyone in CL are snobs who only care about themselves. I wish you would come here and meet people. We are actually a pretty nice bunch of people who are just concerned about their families well-being and their investment–not unlike most neighborhoods I would suspect.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Slappy and CL Resident, thanks for showing us that there is another side of the coin even within Cobblestone Lake.
August 9th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I wonder what would happen if a similar development was proposed for the wealthiest neighborhood of Edina, Woodbury, or Minnetonka?
Personally, I dont care one way or another. I dont live near the area, and it has no impact on my life, but I dont think the people in CL are acting all that much different than people anywhere in this entire country. Not in my backyard could be the slogan of any upper middle class neighborhood in the city/county/state/country/world. That certainly does not make it right, but its still probably true.
The flip side of the coin is the FACT that crime is higher in low income areas of the twin cities. Schools are worse in low income areas of the twin cities. Good jobs and safe homes are hard to come by in low income parts of the cities.
I KNOW that listening to some developer tell me about the screening process for thier tenants would not change my mind. Talk about someone who will say ANYTHING to make a buck.
One last note, I have been through about 30 of the custom homes in CL, as I used to work with the parade of homes. They are far from cookie cutter. Some of them are truly nice places.
Anyway, just playing devils advocate here. I think everyone deserves a chance, but I have to think that this is more about some developers trying to make more coin that it is about giving low income and elderly people a place to live. And for the record, I live in a fairly low crime, racially diverse neighborhood of Burnsville, and I would be truly sad if my child did not have a chance to interact with people of all races/creeds/religions and socioeconomic status.
August 10th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Here‘s an article in the Pioneer Press about this which is entitled, “Neighbors are warming to affordable housing plan”.
August 10th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Great blog!
Just some thoughts from a long tim Cobblestone Res.
1) Most aren’t against this – just a vocal few (isn’t that always the case)
2)Come visit the ‘hood. It’s really a lot of fun. Bring the kids and the fishing pole, we have tons of fish in the lake/pond. Pan fish to large bass. I wouldn’t recommend eating them though.
3) The “cookie cutter’ comments. The neighborhood is a mixed used development. There are some Ryland and Centex homes. that have pre-designed floor plans – Pretty cookie cutter. There are tons of town homes from 199K to 700K some are pretty close to low income propesed design, others are very over the top. There are also over 70 homes that were “custom.” Each of these was a lot purchased by the home owner and then had plans custom designed by an architect, with each plan submitted for its originality and design fit into 1920′s to 1950′s style architecture.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:58 am
While they still haven’t approved the low-income housing, it appears that the City Council has voted to approve the senior housing project. See this article over at the Pioneer Press for more information.
October 6th, 2011 at 5:33 am
I am not white; I am Asian. I don’t live in Cobblestone. But don’t kid yourself that bringing blacks into a neighborhood does not increase crime. Just do a statistical analysis of the % of blacks to the crime rate in any city.