DUNKIN’ DONUTS originally uploaded by Paul Downey
As I mentioned here, Burnsville’s City Council will face the issue of whether or not to approve a drive-through in the HOC during their May 5th City Council meeting. We have discussed it a bit here, along with speculation that this is for a Dunkin Donuts to replace the now defunct Starbucks, across a multitude of threads but I’m interested in seeing it in poll format this time around.
Last week the the Burnsville Planning Commission meeting met (video here at about the 25:00 mark) and a 2-1 motion pushed the request up to the city council where Mayor Kautz is likely to start crying and stamping her feet that if people want a donut then they can walk!
The entire agenda for the upcoming Burnsville City Council meeting where this decision will take place is available here (PDF) but the relevant piece from that document is simply:
Consider an Application for Nicollet Plaza, LLC for a Planned Unit Development Amendment for Construction of a Drive Through Window at 250 Travelers Trail East; and Consider Findings of Fact, Ordinance, and Amended Planned Unit Development Agreement.
The current HOC zoning regulations note that drive-through lanes are not permitted in HOC-1 (where this particular property is located) and it has been said that the mayor herself was quite miffed (#9) at the thought that there might be a drive-through lane in the “pedestrian friendly” parking lot behind her condo.
So, what do you think? Should the Burnsville City Council permit the addition of a drive-through lane for a new business planning on going into the fairly empty strip mall behind the mayor’s condo? Regardless of how you feel about it, what do you think the final vote will be (3-2 in favor or 4-1 against? Perhaps something else entirely?). Whatever it is, go ahead and let’s hear some thoughts on this one alongside a quick and easy poll.
Heart of the City Drive-through for Dunkin Donuts?
- Yes (90.0%, 38 Votes)
- No (7.0%, 3 Votes)
- N/A (2.0%, 1 Votes)
Total Voters: 42
Loading ...After you vote and comment be sure to check out our expired polls in the archive or read through the previous posts about polls here.
Related posts:
Dakota Complaints Map
Dakota Inmate Dashboard
April 29th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
With the state of the economy and chains such as Starbucks cutting back on store locations, stores going out of business in the Heart of the City such as Double Dip, The Culinary Center, the Salon / Spa, dozens of unsold condos, drug busts near the Heart of the City, the PAC underperforming and hemorrhaging money I believe that the Burnsville City Council should roll out the red carpet for anyone who wishes to take a shot at putting a business in the HOC and approve the building owners request to build a drive thru in the end store location of this strip mall. Any arguments made that this area is pedestrian focused is bunk as this area is the artery to the Transit Station and 35W!! If someone is walking in the area they can walk to Jo Jo’s to get their java. I doubt the percentage of patrons to the previous Starbucks was pedestrians and I would speculate that 90%+ of all Starbucks patrons drove there. If any member of the Burnsville City Council votes no for this PUD amendment they should step down as they are not acting in the best interest of the residents, business community and existing building owners in the city of Burnsville. I cannot think of any rational, logical criteria that would persuade me to understand why the request for a drive thru in this specific location should not be approved and allow a business to cater to the residents of Burnsville and generate more tax revenue for the city especally in these economic times in the HOC which is floded with vacancies. In an ideal world with logical people in office, the vote should be 5-0 but I suspect it will be 3-2 and we will again witness the antics of Mayor Kautz and get to watch her try to substantiate some wild ass criteria or position as to why she is voting against this PUD amendment. I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.
April 30th, 2009 at 5:50 am
After reading TLs post, I can only think that perhaps Dunkin Donuts is crazy. Why on earth do they want to build here?!!
I really really really hope that the council shows some spark of common sense, realizes that everything TL said is true, and votes to allow Dunkin Donuts to move into the area and put in the drive through window.
With the number of empty places in there, they really should do everything they can to move a viable business into the area. They should be thrilled that a national chain with brand recognition wants to move into the area, and I hope the chain can act as some sort of an anchor to the area, that, along with cub foods, will draw some traffic into the place.
April 30th, 2009 at 6:16 am
I can’t believe Dunkin Donuts would want to move in there. Even with a drive-thru, it would be a pain to go to ever morning for those on the way to Minneapolis and it’s repeat morning business that coffee shops thrive one. For most people it would be much faster to park at the Caribou up Nicollet. True, with it being right by 35W and the transit station there is a lot of traffic in the area, but most people aren’t going to try to get back onto Nicollet and switch lanes to get to 35W. Even with a hot cup of coffee, that experience isn’t fun believe me.
April 30th, 2009 at 6:35 am
Any suggestions on where Dunkin’ Donuts should setup shop in Burnsville if Kueen Kautz gets her way?
April 30th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Ooh, sorry, but I LOVE Dunkin Donuts! :) Way better than Krappy Kreme. Not so sure this bodes well for my quest to be healthier however…
April 30th, 2009 at 6:56 am
That’s a tough one, there really are no good locations near 13 and Nicollet. The two gas stations in the Western corners have the only good real estate for drive up anything near there. The next best location would be at the Burnsville Parkway 35W junction. That location would give you a lot of traffic, yet it isn’t the complete traffic disaster that Nicollet and 13 is.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Ich bin ein Donuter.
I am not sure it is the best location for a drive thru, but considering the woeful state of availabilty of selection of deep fried glutinous dough in Bville (basically big box supermarkets,or gas stations), I would welcome a Dunkin with an open mouth.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:33 am
This should be a no brainer. Kautz needs to realize this is the CITY council, not her neighborhood association. This means doing what is good for the city as a whole, not just what she perceives as good for her failing little neighborhood. Here is a solution. If the drive through window is denied, Dunkin’ donuts can still open, stay open 24/7, and offer drive up service. Customers drive up, honk thier car horn and someone will come out to take the donut order. Lets see how she likes honking horns at all hours. Of course it would be foolish to show your disdain for Kautz and what she does by honking everytime you drive by her condo. It would be socially irresponsible to suggest that…
April 30th, 2009 at 7:37 am
If they could put it on the site of the old TCF bank, then funnel the traffic from the drive through back on to B’ville Parkway instead of directly onto Nicollet (which is a MESS during am rush), it would have better visibility and better flow, but knocking down the TCF bank building would be prohibitively expensive (and plus, thats going to be the site of a “medical building” to tout Burnsville’s growing (HA!) medical care industry (translated: it will be a CVS or a Walgreens at some point). And what will that CVS or Walgreens have? A drive thru. And I guarantee the Mayor won’t be saying: “You want your prescription, you can get out of your car!”
Better yet – whatever happened to the “retail” which was “Coming in 2007″ (according to the sign which has now conveniently disappeared) to the Burnsville Transit Station? Put a free-standing DD on the NE corner of 13 and Nicollet, with a direct entrance into the transit station from the parking lot of DD. Allow WB traffic on 13 to enter the business about 1/4 mile from the intersection with Nicollet, using a RH turn lane. Allow EB traffic on Nicollet to enter the DD only via entrance to the transit station lot somehow, to keep congestion down.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Being that traffic is so horrendous along that stretch of road in the morning, I think that Dunkin’ Donuts should have a street salesman with a load of coffee and donuts who can pass them through car windows as people wait at one of the several traffic lights in the area. That would eliminate the worry about a drive-through and it wouldn’t have people loosing their spots in line during rush-hour traffic.
Unfortunately I can’t see Kautz permitting that one either. With Jo Jo’s so close and already in competition with Caribou next door, I imagine that Kautz is looking out for her friends’ interests by attempting to shut out another similar store.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Oh to make it an easy sell to the City Council, the salesman could double as a crossing-guard for the PAC!
April 30th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Add in a few tubs of Baskin Robbin’s ice cream and they can put a drive thru wherever they want!
April 30th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Heck, do it up right, and blackmail DD to “sponsor” an elevated pedestrian walkway over Nicollet from the park to the sidewalk in front of the condo building. Make them also “sponsor” a concert series at the PAC while you are at it too.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:05 am
as far as i’m concerned, dunkin is in the same boat as krappy kreme’s. they can put it wherever they want to!
bb
April 30th, 2009 at 8:11 am
The funny thing in this thread is that not a single person disagrees that the traffic in this “walking community” is horrendous.
I think the abandoned bank would be a better location, as stated above, with the entrance/exit through Bville Parkway, however if its someplace in the Cub parking lot, its not that bad, you have a stoplight to get you back out onto nicollet, or you can go out the other way onto Burnsville Parkway, although this would increase traffic right through that little HOC neighborhood. Either way, they (city council) should be trying to figure out how fast then can get a lease signed, not whining about drive throughs.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Chad: The other funny thing (but not “ha ha” funny) is that the HOC supporters (of which I only know of three who are willing to say so out loud: Kautz, Gustafson and now Dee Dee Currier), with all of their “vision” cannot see that (a) there are very few pedestrians in this “walking community” (b) traffic is horrendous, and (c) that traffic being horrendous is NOT forcing people out of their cars to walk through the HOC and spend $ while walking. [If that were the case, I'm sure "Mr. Whit" would walk by the flower shop in HOC once a week and say "hmm, I think I'll splurge and bring Whit flowers today to show that I appreciate her" or "hey, my kid could really use another (useless) stuffed animal, I think I'll stop by Ficus and Fig"]. I bet you dollars to donuts (hee hee) that the flower shop in HOC gets the majority of its business from phone and internet orders, and that Ficus gets most of their business from Jensen’s customers waiting for tables. Very little, if any, of that sales traffic migrates down the sidewalks of HOC.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Mmmmmm donuts! Mr. Marcos is crazy for Dunkin’ Donuts coffee, I could see us taking a trip from Apple Valley/Lakeville on the weekends for a coffee (I don’t drink coffee but I believe Coca Cola is served at Dunkin’ Donuts).
Also:
That is beautiful. I wonder if a national drug store would like to use that as their advertising campaign.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Once again from the ‘cuff’ – here is my response. Short, confection powdered and to the point.
1) The city has regulations. Abide by them please, you are not special because you are a staple in time bakeshop of mass produced fat-laden snacks. If I wanted to setup my computer shop with a ‘drive-thru upgrade’ lane where customers dropped off their PC for me to upgrade, I’d get laughed at.
If you bend the rules for one person or entity, it makes it easier to do for the next, and next, and so on.. It’s that simple.
2) This is just another way to promote the sheer laziness and impulse to overeat. “Hey, lets get DONUTS, because I don’t even have to get out of the car, WIN” No. If you’re going to eat unhealthy crap, then at least walk the 10ft from your car to the door, stand and get back in your car.
3) YES, Lets put a whirling drive-thru mayhem fustercluck of donut and coffee hungry self-centered, only caring about themselves in a ‘Pedestrian Friendly’ parking lot. All it will take is some kid getting dinged by a car while trying to get a donut before the area will turn against Dunkin’ Donuts for not having a safe environment for the drive-thru, and also to the Council for allowing them in, even though it’s against the zoning.
Epic fail all around.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I’m all for a Dunkin Donuts. Having grown up with them, I miss them terribly.
And… I could care less about zoning and whatever. If it’s supposed to be pedestrian friendly, then the drive-thru is probably a bad idea, because people in drive-thrus are rarely thinking clearly about anything other than their large SUV and how quickly they can get fries or caffeine into said SUV.
But, if a drive-thru will conclusively boost business and allow a store to maintain its presence (and not have to bail, like so many others previously mentioned by Bill), then it could be a good thing.
I would like some donuts though.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:20 am
To be honest, I think if the city had a vision for the area that doesn’t allow drive through’s, I think they should stick to it. What they have to understand then is that they will need to find a tenant that can live with that. I.e., I’m not sure how a coffee shop really could survive without drive up service these days. Especially in that area where most people are driving to work. If they want a coffee shop, then they need to allow drive through. If they don’t want drivethru then they need to find a business that doesn’t demand a drivethru.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I’m not 100% sure on this (because lets face it, I’m here for the snark) but I think the issue with not having drive thru establishments is more because that is where the worthless mayor lives and she’s trying to create some sort of suburban utopia devoid of anything she dislikes and filled with everything she adores.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Well, in reading the subsequent posts, the question is why is the city of Burnsville continuing with the “No drive thru” policy in the heart of the city? I think it is rediculous. We already have drive throughs in the city and at coffee shops in the city (Caribou on Cliff and 13 a whopping 2 miles away). Due to the very nature of a drive thru you are not going very fast as you have to stop and place your order and move up and stop again to pick up your order. I can attest that rarely do I see any pedestrains in the heart of the city today as I travel Nicollet Avenue a minimum of twice daily, and when I do they elect to jay walk across Nicollet Avenue. I find it hilarious that you have Nicollet Avenue which people are either flying 35-40 MPH on or sitting in standing traffic for blocks and then claim is that this is a pedestrian friendly part of the city when nothing could be further from the truth due to Nicollet Avenue is a major artery. I do not understand how you have a huge parking structure at the PAC worth $3.5 Million, a new $300K asphalt surface lot outside of the former Double Dip and hundreds of spots in the Cub paking lot mall which are all a result of people traveling in cars, not on foot, and someone can make the claim that a drive thru is going to infringe on their vision of the HOC being pedetrian friendly any more than the city putting in a surface lot, parking garage or parking spaces in a strip mall lot. If you do not allow a drive thru then hell, you might as well zone the HOC as no motorized vehichles allowed. That is how rediculous I see this policy. Fine, stick to your guns and say no drvie thrus but then we get the right to shred the city officials even more for the vacancy levels in the HOC. Open your eyes, the HOC will never be pedestrian friendly until they create alternate access to 35W, the Transit Station or actually sell some more condos, and get more retail tennants where the residents would be able to walk to these destinations. So pick your poison, no drive thrus and limit the tennants that want to risk establishing a business in the HOC, or allow Drive Thrus and expand the businesses in the HOC and get over your vision of a walking community on a major artery of the city. I see this as another mistep of the mayor similar to the water feature, lets implement a water feature, oh wait people used it as a pool not a foutain, oh crap, well lets spend a half a million to correct my misstep and make it safe for kids to play in and treat the fountain water that kids were using as a bathroom.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
If Dunkin’ replacing vacated Starbucks locales is a trend, the outlook for a third donut shop in Shakopee looks good.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
TL summed up my opinion. Although I will add to it.
This is not about Dunkin Donuts. Its about a whole boat load of empty storefronts in multiple buildings in the HOC. If you have a tenant who is willing to come in and open a viable business, you should be figuring out how to make it work, not putting up artificial walls to cause needless hurdles.
The HOC is FAILING. Anyone who cant see that is fucking blind. Find tenants who will bring people into the area. Obviously Dunkin Donuts is one, as people have posted saying they would drive to Burnsville just to visit. Personally, I dont care if its a donut shop, a gun store, or an ice cream parlor, a restraunt, or an oil change shop, just get some paying tenants in these places.
As for the no drive through policy itself, its a stupid rule. This has nothing to do with pedestrian safety at all. Its a friggen PARKING LOT PEOPLE. Oh, and I dont think anyone has mentioned in this thread that Highland Bank is located a few hundred feet away, in the same parking lot, and it has a………….GASP………DRIVE THROUGH. That must be where the Mayor banks, so its probably ok.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Sornie reminded me of another question:
Will Dunkin’ Donuts perform better in any given locale when a Starbucks may have already failed?
April 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I think the target audience is considerably different, but I dont know. I have never been to a dunkin donuts.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Bill and sornie…my thoughts:
There are a million other places to get coffee and almost all of them are priced lower and better quality than Starbucks. (Dunkin coffee sucks too, but it’s like a dollar a cup vs. $3.00 for Starbucks).
If my memory serves, there is only one source of fresh donuts (Donut Star on Cliff) in the entire Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Savage section of MSP, and it’s not particularly good. (Byerly’s, Cub, etc. don’t count…plus they’re rarely fresh).
People won’t buy 2 dozen cups of coffee to bring to the office on Friday whereas that business was the only reason Krispy Kreme lasted as long as it did.
Dunkin’ isn’t competing with a local chain like Starbucks (vs. hometown Caribou).
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I think that saying that Starbucks failed in that location may be a but strong. I beleive what happened is that Starbucks went through a downsizing company wide / nation wide and had several hundred stores nation wide that they closed and the HOC location just so happened to be one of those stores. I would suspect that this particualr location made the list due to they were underperforming in the overall portfolio of stores, but to say it failed may not be the most accurate.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Wow…listen to Mr. Glass Half-Full!
Maybe the PAC isn’t failing either…it just isn’t quite performing as well as other venues in the performing arts center portfolio?
I’m just ribbing you Thought Leader…I think the “failing” here is akin to not doing well enough to stay open. I bet those that were on their payroll share in supporting that definition.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I await with bated breath the Mayor’s rationale for denying the variance. She makes comments in public (at Jo Jo’s) about people wanting drive-thrus because they don’t want to get out of their cars for a donut, intimating that people are lazy, but then she needs to use that same scold on the people who don’t want to walk 1/2 block to a traffic light to cross the street with a semaphore on Nicollet. I’m not lazy, lady. I’m busy. Its why I bank at a drive through (btw, that was why I USED to go to HOC, to go to TCF’s drive thru – so thanks for pushing them out to the real retail center of B’ville – CR 42), its why I get coffee at a Lakeville coffee shop instead of a Burnsville one (CR 46 Starbucks has a drive thru), and its why when I need a prescription filled I use a pharmacy with a drive thru (maybe its just me, but I’m not one to haul a sick kid from the car on the way home from the doctor to get a prescription filled and expose everyone in the store to whatever my kid has). The drive thru is as much a part of our lives now as the convenience of pay at the pump gas stations. Lizzie: Just grant the variance and go to the photo op of the grand opening with your big scissors, smile vacantly and then go home and have “visions” of what you are going to do with the tax base the DD is going to bring in.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
There are too many Starbucks. And strictly coffee places. Dunkin has so much more to offer. I for one would LOVE to see it go it anywhere in Burnsville.
Some D.D.s have ice cream and sandwiches. Would this location be a 24 hour one? If so then the old Starbucks would be a good place because it is right by Cub which is already 24 hours.
Anything has to be a good idea at this point… or the H.o.C. will be empty until they bulldoze it and start over. Kautz should be thanking her lucky stars they have anyone wanting to come in.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I vote for bulldozing and starting over.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
o.k.. I just couldn’t resist. I don’t think Dunkin Donuts could cut it in Burnsville if the city follows through with their plans to cut Police Officers.
In general, areas like that have a challenge. If there isn’t enough people in the area, then how do you get people to move in. I think that generally, right, now, it’s a bad time for any new store to move into anywhere that isn’t already established. If trying to move into an area that is growing, you need to be ready for no or negative growth for a while with this economy.
What HOC needs is a draw. Something to draw people to the area, since there aren’t enough people already there. That PAC could do it if it was managed right. Or if the city recruited some sort of business or store that is not common in the area, but might appeal to folks.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
“I vote for bulldozing and starting over.”
MSPD – Don’t give her any ideas! With the market as it is, she could get all that land for a song now using eminent domain (again), and who knows what her next “vision” would be? Lets see…culture…culture…we’ve got the MCC and its belly dancers…got the PAC…thinking about an ice rink a la NYC (tee hee wait til the taxpayers figure out too late that their paying for that too!)…AHA! A sculpture garden! Its perfect! Its walkable! It will be like a victorian garden outside my little balcony – the City could commission its own “Spoon, Bridge and Cherry” and the bridge could (gasp) cross over Nicollet! Pedestrian Perfection.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Maybe bulldoze it and put a “pedestrian friendly” Costco in that area. :) I’m a caffeine addict, but I’ve never had the DD coffee. I’m looking forward to trying it as long as everyone doesn’t get all bat shit stupid about it like they did with Krispe Kreme.
If they drive DD away over the variance it will be the second business that they lost because they were inflexible. I heard (unofficially) that Costco is now looking for a site in Lakeville because Burnsville wouldn’t give them a liquor license in the locations they wanted. They won’t get a license in Lakeville either, but they must have decided that it’s a better place to be. Burnsville must not need the tax revenue.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
John, they should have put it in Eagan or Rosemount as neither of those two towns have any distance restriction on liquor licenses.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Re: Costco, there was just an article published on the Strib’s site tonight about how Burnsville is considering changing the ordinance so that they could build there.
May 1st, 2009 at 8:56 am
John, DD coffee is no better or worse than McDonald’s or the “medium roast” coffee-of-the-day at a Caribou or whatever. I’m convinced the people that get all gaga about Dunkin’ Donuts coffee, a) are used to drinking Folgers instant or Super America/Kwik Trip coffee and b) are the same suckers who think they’re “trendy” or wait in line for over an hour to eat at places like Sonic and/or the Cheesecake Factory.
As for the donuts, unlike Krispy Kreme where the glazed are fresh and the other 15-or-so donuts are made in a warehouse and stale, Dunkin’ Donuts are more like a Bruegger’s, where most of the varieties are fairly fresh throughout the day. They also offer 2-3x the variety of Krispy Kreme and have donut holes which are popular.
That said, I would gladly drive up to Robert St. in South St. Paul and visit Granny Donuts when I want a great donut. Their apple fritters are ridiculously good. Everything there is better than a Dunkin’ (although I’ve never tried the coffee).
May 1st, 2009 at 9:48 am
MSPD: Granny’s, you nailed it, best donuts in town IMO. Need to correct you, however, they are in W.St. Paul, not SSP.
In regards to Dunkin’ Donuts. I don’t care one way or another if they come here or not. But you cannot compare them to Krispy Kreme. KK donuts all taste the same if you ask me, and they were all nasty. Dunkin’ Donuts actually are pretty dang good. They are everywhere in the Chicago area. I asked my sister, who lives in a suburb of Chicago, why they have so many donut shops when there are virtually none up here. Both her and her husband both said it’s more for the coffee than the donuts. My brother in law actually asked me if we don’t have Dunkin Donuts, where do we get our coffee up here? Thought that was funny.
I think Dunkin Donuts is a much bigger chain than maybe most people realize. Same as in Chicago, out East they are seemingly on every street corner, at least it felt that way in Boston. I know they mentioned about 6 months ago they were expanding to the Twin Cities market which may seem crazy given the epic failure of KK. Maybe there is opportunity for some donut stores that actually sell good donuts rather than the crud KK spewed out. But I think their coffee plays largely into the equation as well.
May 1st, 2009 at 10:17 am
So, there are 32 yes votes to 1 no vote on our little poll here. Based on the history of the Burnsville City Council and their reluctance to listen to 19 people in favor (only one opposed) who spoke out at the Planning Commission meeting, I have a feeling that this one may not go the way of the majority.
MAKE THEM WALK KAUTZ!
July 10th, 2009 at 7:32 am
[...] was a lot of discussion when the rumor that Burnsville might get a Dunkin Donuts with many people saying that they would love to see them open up here but I question, in this [...]
July 13th, 2009 at 8:52 am
I’m joining the discussion a bit late. I came here as a result of a Google search trying to understand why there is a Walgreens every half a block in Burnsville but not a CVS to be had anywhere south of Hwy 13.
What a tremendously funny discussion! Next time I see Mayor Kautz rolling up to Macy’s in my neighborhood, I’ll ask her if she walked there. :) I see her there more than I think she would care to admit.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:11 am
ever get an update as to whether DND is going to come in or not?
June 8th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Just wondering if Dunkin’ Donuts is coming to Burnsville or not? Any fresh news?