Following the closing of the Dunn Bros coffee shop at the corner of Galaxie and 153rd in Apple Valley, I sent an e-mail off to the co-owner, Sheryl Petersburg, asking if she’d be willing to share her thoughts about running a small business in Apple Valley’s most difficult mixed-use district. Check out the results of that discussion and feel free to share your thoughts on the topic below!
LL: Why did you decide that you wanted to open a coffee shop? Was having your own business a life long pursuit? What made you decide to open up under the umbrella of the Dunn Bros chain as opposed to rolling your own?
SP:
My husband came up with the idea. We felt that our background in coffee wasn’t strong enough to allow for a mom and pop place and so we decided to go with a franchise operation instead. With Starbucks and Caribou not franchising, we found and signed up as one of the first ten or so Dunn Bros franchises. With the hard work ethic instilled in us through our rural, farm upbringing we thought that eventually we’d be able to sell a successful business and have some money to be able to happily enjoy our retirement.
LL: What other areas of the South Metro (or Apple Valley) were you considering prior to opening in Founders Circle? Who and/or what sold you on the idea to setup shop there instead?
SP:
We originally found a location which had a drive-through access along CR-42 in Savage but following the urging of both the city and our potential landlord about the future plans for Apple Valley’s Central Village plan, we were excited to move into the space that we called home for the next 7 years. At the time we were told the area would be a vibrant, pedestrian friendly environment with shopping, housing, and a hotel.
LL: Once you were situated in Apple Valley what did you think about the priorities of the city when it comes to the economy and the needs of its small business owners? Do you believe that the city is doing everything in its power to support small/local/independent businesses or are they concentrating more on attracting the big national chains? What do you think that the city could do to bolster its small businesses and get them to thrive instead of the high turnover they frequently seem to fall prey to?
SP:
When we first opened, Mayor Mary Hamann-Roland would come into the shop often and would say that we were sitting on a goldmine and Ed Kearney from the Apple Valley Chamber of Commerce kept us updated about the happenings in the area. He was very good to us. But even so, with time things changed and our frustrations fell on deaf ears.I feel that the city should have taken a more forceful hand in making the development of Central Village occur. The city was stubbornly holding on to the plan and should have realized that the cost to developers was too high and made it difficult to realize the dream.
Unfortunately the city never did offer us any help in getting things going. In fact, when it came down to it, they would always blame the business owner for failures in the area and never the decisions made by the city. Do you mean to tell me that the laundry list of businesses that have opened and closed in Central Village were all bad business managers and that there were no external forces at work?
LL: You said that prior to your opening you were unaware of the one-way street that they would later setup right outside your door and once it was in you immediately noticed the impact on your business. How much of an impact did it have and were you ever able to recover from the loss?
SP:
We immediately noticed more than 1/3 of our business disappear. So I did what any active business owner who held a close relationship to their customers would do…I called them up and asked them why they weren’t coming in. I wanted to be able to present facts to the city about the problems I was experiencing and who better to get that information from than those people that came in every day from the surrounding areas on their way to or from work? I asked if it was the service, the price or the attitude making certain that I didn’t mention the road changes in my question, yet everyone said that with the way the roads are setup it’s no longer convenient and they did not like having to traverse the “maze” that had been created and took 14 months to complete. During the next year, many had instead decided to travel on Pilot Knob Road because, at the time, it didn’t have any traffic lights and the newly installed lights along Galaxie were a barrier for these people on their way to work.Once people become set in a routine, especially one that has been building for 14 months, it’s difficult to lure them back. We aggressively marketed and even though the companies we worked with were very good to us, we just were never able to get back to where we were before they created that one-way on 153rd.
LL: After business started to decline, you and many other establishments adjacent to the never ending construction zone gathered up 1000 signatures in only 5 days from residents who opposed the one-way street at 153rd/Galaxie. The minutes from the April 5th, 2006 City Council meeting only mention that the traffic engineer explained why a two-way street could no longer work there but it doesn’t go into detail. What was said about why it couldn’t go back to the way it was and return people to your businesses? What did the City Council say when presented with the 1000 signatures?
SP:
Once we heard about the hotel moving, we felt that there was an opportunity to modify the plan. The entire reason for the one-way was because of the hotel that was to be built across the street in the triangular section of land (LL: you can see one of the original zoning plans here [PDF]). They were going to be using that one-way as part of their check-in and thus it was necessary for the streets to be setup the way planners originally intended.The engineer said that it could be changed back but that it just wouldn’t be practical because the roads wouldn’t line up anymore. He also said that in the year 2020 there would be huge traffic problems if the plan was changed back.
After we presented citizen opposition to the plan, Mayor Mary’s visits to my establishment ceased. While Ed Kearney from the Chamber of Commerce continued to come in along with my loyal customers whom I loved, I never saw the Mayor frequent our business again.
LL: The one-way street was installed back in 2006 and you made it until 2009. What did you have to do to stay competitive for another three years while many other businesses in the area dropped like flies?
SP:
I was going without pay as were both my son and daughter. We had a staff of wonderful kids who knew the situation and were quite helpful in helping us save money anyway they could. I was shopping at Walmart and Sam’s to save money and working closely with my loyal customers and local organizations to try and draw in more business.Unfortunately my problems didn’t end with the city and the economy. Dunn Bros decided to open up shop in Cub just down the street after we told them that we weren’t interested. This location was eventually pulled because they just didn’t seem to work yet some people who would normally have stopped in our shop on their way to and from Cub decided to skip us.
LL: When you finally did close, after 7 years, you put up a note informing your loyal customers that this was another “Heart attack for the Heart of the City”. What exactly did you mean by that?
SP:
Exactly what it says. We were told that this was going to be the “heart of the city” and every time another business closed it was a heart attack occurring right there in the heart of Apple Valley.
LL: There were various rumors floating around as to why you closed including that you had a death in the family (I assume started by the note you left on your door) and that you just weren’t doing well enough but that another Dunn Bros will be opening in that space soon. What did happen to cause you to close and what do you think the prospects are for any business looking to open up in that are are?
SP:
It was purely financial. In looking over the books I noticed a serious downtown. Between January and March we were thousands down from 2008 which was not a good year in itself. It was fueled by the downturn and phenomena such as tips on how to save money. You do know what one of the most popular suggestions on those lists were don’t you? Give up your daily coffee at a coffee shop. I wonder if the writers realized how many people they were putting out of business due to those lists?We had been trying to sell the shop for over a year and we had a buyer lined up but we decided that the shop had become a lemon and we didn’t think it was ethical to sell to anyone. With Rosemount’s location closing just this week, it’s not looking good for anyone. Dunn Bros corporation contacted the person we had decided not to sell to and they may be purchasing the business from the bank for $20,000 while we had put in over $300,000.
I want to again thank Sheryl for her time in speaking with me on this topic! I know that she will be sorely missed by many in the South Metro and that her trials and tribulations are an unfortunate reminder of the nasty realities of politics and how they impact the livelihoods of so many. The best quote which does not appear above is that Sheryl mentioned numerous times how she wished that she had owned a crystal ball and was able to foresee all the issues that would arise during her 7 years at the helm of one of Apple Valley Central Village’s longest standing businesses. Ahh, wouldn’t we all?
Feel free to share you comments about what Mrs. Petersburg had to say about Apple Valley’s Central Village/Founders Circle, I’m positive that everyone–especially those that are looking to open or even survive in this area want to hear what you have to say!
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June 15th, 2009 at 7:43 am
This is so frustrating. I am so sad for her and her family and employees. You get sold this amazing dream of being in the heart of a bustling commercial area and poof–it’s gone. It happens over and over again there and it’s so sad. I love living in Apple Valley and feel like our leadership isn’t paying attention to any of this. I hope Mayor Mary reads this or someone reads it to her. These vacant areas are so sad. I live in Cobblestone Lake and it’s really frustrating to see the brand new empty store fronts in the shopping area. The ones that are there are still doing okay–I think. You can’t feel anything but frustrated with this. I feel like these businesses were set up to fail. Mayor Mary–you really need to pay attention and figure out how to help your city. Or, we need to elect a new Mayor and a new vision.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:06 am
This is very sad. I had visited this location a few times when I was in the area (picking out paint at Hirschfield’s or on my way to drop off at Good Will) and I thought it was a very nice coffee shop. I, myself, worked in coffee shops for nearly a decade. They helped me save for and survive through college.
She has a point regarding those tips to save money. I read many of those lists in amazement because they only served to make the economy fall harder and I saw that from the beginning… with all of my 26 years of experience on this Earth! If you can’t save a person who is bleeding out by simply stopping the blood and not pumping them full of more, than how can you save a bleeding economy without pumping money back into it?
I had once dreamed of opening my own coffee shop later in life if my design career fell through and I know the struggles of the Mom & Pop Shop as I started out at a Caribou and moved to a privately owned store (of which I preferred ten fold to working for the Caribou Corporate Nazi’s – well, it wasn’t bad until Caribou was sold. Kim & John Puckett had kept it fairly real for a company that was quickly spreading nationally and would even stop in every once in a while to see how their stores were doing… I know, I met them). Small business is the foundation of this country, in my opinion. We need to cherish them, not send them packing.
It’s unfortunate that the mayor started out filling them with promise and hope and once the frustration and struggle came, she failed to stand by their side.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:06 am
I don’t know much about the issues surrounding this area and the AV city govt planning. This is, however , a good way to report on it and deserves to be heard in the South Metro. (although i miss the restaurant and food posts which are declining!! hint hint)
Lots of grief for this business owner here, I think the biggest factor however is the economy, with the bust of the bubble economy people just arent able or willing to pay $3.85 for venti soy nonfat latte anymore. the closure of many Starbucks and other coffee shops pretty much shows that the coffee economy is in decline. I am not saying that the AV planning decisions didnt contribute to it and I think your reporting shows that it certainly did, but it sounds like the decline really hit hard in mid to late 2008 and then first quarter of 2009 which coincides with the meltdown in the economy.
High end coffee shops thrive best in a high traffic area with a combination of both car and foot traffic. Obviously the city’s great plans for an urban village didnt pan out and doomed this location(possibly as a consequence of the city’s own poor planning, but more likely because the real estate bubble that underpinned these types of developments were already starting to erode in mid 2007). But I also think the customers from Lakeville and AV who have lost jobs or are underwater in their mortgages may have alot to do with it too. They have switched to premium Folgers or Sam’s Club Millstone at home I think.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:11 am
1. Restaurant posts cost money to do–something which we don’t have enough of.
2. New South Metro restaurants which are non-chain are few.
3. I’ll try to find more foodie-related posts that are free/low-cost to do. Since restaurants are pretty much out at least for the time being, do you have any food related posts that you’d like to see instead–I’m open to suggestions.
According to Sheryl, it was the city’s poor planning that made it difficult for the developer to meet their expensive demands. So even if the real estate bubble hadn’t burst (I fucking hate that phrase yet I typed it anyway, argh) I think that the area would have had a hard time meeting the expectations of the city council.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Bill, thanks for this great Q&A and I hope Sheryl is reading along. If so I for one miss your shop. Even though I live clear over in Burnsville, I was a fairly regular customer. I especially miss your former barista…I think Aubrey was her name. There are a few people in places like coffee shops, dry cleaners, etc. that if your “favorite” person is there, it makes your day a little better. I was always happy to see her working. Anyway…the point is, I always enjoyed coming in for coffee and miss the AV Dunn Bros.
Granted, the economy is tough. But the third Q&A above seems so typical of our south metro City governments’ M.O. of creating these grand plans but then sitting on their hands when things don’t work out. They’re your best friend when they’re reaping the benefits of your success but disappear when the chips are down.
It’s a great show of integrity by Mayor H-R…when business owners sense a problem, they bring warning to the City. Instead of a constructive dialogue and a cooperative effort to find solutions, the Mayor simply stops coming in for coffee.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Thank you Bill for this article. Thank you Sheryl for your thoughts and time in sharing this with us.
I truly hope this article is the Mayors worst nightmare come to life. People need to know how much these crazy mayors and councils are actually doing, and the fact that these people who basically won a popularity contest are now tasked with running cities without the margin of error that came with a booming economy. Bumbling idiots are no longer up to the job, and I hope in the future voters will make decisions based on who can best do the job, and not on who is the most articulate, has the best slogan, or spends the most money on advertising.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Great story Mr Roehl. A major thing we are missing in this world right now are faces. Were too quick to judge because all we see are figures and numbers. We figure that if your house gets foreclosed it is because you got a mortgage that you should never have qualified for. And yes that is PART of the problem in some cases. But we have reached a point where the trickle down of this mess is hurting good hard working people. Too many times we open the paper and see 8% plus in unemployment. ______ lays off 1000 workers. Too often we just see numbers. We lump them into a big ball and forget it.
We need to start putting faces on these stories. 1000 Foreclosures seems like a number to most but it is 1000 families who’s life was turned upside down.
This story was important on a few levels. It put a face on a growing problem. But it also is a message to others. People need to her that they are not alone. There must have been times where the Petersburgs felt they were doing something wrong. That what they were doing was not right or working. Times like that it is hard NOT to feel like your the only one going through this. You start questioning yourself, you feel like your a failure.
This was a failure, but not by the Petersburgs. Right now things are tough for everyone. There are other “Dunn Bros” type family run store that need to hear stories like this to know they are not alone.
The next time you drive by a empty store remember its not just a empty store but a personal story to someone. Its easy to see things as numbers. It makes things harder to ignore when you put a human face to them.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Bill
I retract my comment re restaurant posts and replace it with “foodie” posts, not restricted to food, but can also pertain to liquid refreshments as well.
Your piece on the Asian market was an excellent one.
As to the AV issue above… I am also a Bville resident and given the travails here i can’t keep up with more than that
June 15th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Sadly, cities everywhere in the metro make empty promises and fail to see that their construction decisions wreck the hopes of business owners who pay huge amounts of taxes and employ people. They don’t realize that those strip malls are the new small business centers of this country but they’ll gladly cater to the Walmarts and Targets and design streets that allow relatively easy access to them.
June 15th, 2009 at 11:52 am
It’s fairly apparent to me that the Apple Valley City Council likes to question the number of people it takes to make a decision in town when it goes against their set agenda.
Let’s take the Cedar Ave sound walls example from last week. The City Council was vehemently against the idea due to the fact that only a handful of people were involved in the decision making process which will likely lead to the walls being constructed at taxpayer expense. But when faced with 1000 signatures, collected by numerous businesses over only 5 days, they did little but give lip-service to the idea of reverting the changes back even though the layout of the area had changed drastically.
I really want the Apple Valley City Council to recognize that their defiance is hurting everyone, including not only business owners but also the 1000 individuals who signed a petition asking for them to go back to the way it was. STOP SAYING YOU ARE DOING THINGS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE RESIDENTS WHEN IT BENEFITS YOUR PET PROJECTS!
Boo.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
153rd from Galaxie is a Mess. I avoid that road. Coming from the south, I’ll go up to 152nd and pick a direction from where it hits Garrett. Heading back south, same thing, 152nd or Cedar, as turning left from the north side of 153rd can be a real challenge if not at the one light.
There were just too many other coffee shops easier to get to.
June 15th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
I also avoid the roundabout and general area as much as possible. I generally prefer to take 152nd or 151st to get to the area near Target or Cedar. Anything to avoid the danger of people driving the wrong way down 153rd towards Galaxie and even Foliage. Hell, I saw someone driving the wrong way on 153rd to Foliage on my way home from the Apple Valley City Council meeting where they discussed the construction at 153rd/Galaxie!
June 15th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Bill: Great topic and great interview. Its too bad the city planning department doesn’t perform these kinds of “exit interviews” so that they can learn from their mistakes. Boo on the mayor of AV for being so thin skinned when these businesses tried to tell the city how the “planning” was affecting their businesses. Once again, does this send a message to other businesses to stay quiet and not criticize in the face of poor government decisionmaking? You bet. Sooner or later, however, it turns into one of those Emperor’s New Clothes situations, because no one wants to say anything for fear of reprisals. Thanks Bill for making sure the word gets out on these situations in AV and other SOTR suburbs, and thanks Sheryl for sharing your story.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:38 am
[...] Land of 10,000 Lakes, we tend to not like things we can’t pronounce”), a Dunn Bros. owner laments the closing of her shop and the “quit drinking your daily coffee” advice that writers so blithely dispense to would-be budget busters, and deets on the corndog festival. [...]
June 16th, 2009 at 9:13 am
drove by ex dunn bros yesterday. two signs, one window and one door read, dunn brothers opening soon??????
bb
June 16th, 2009 at 9:39 am
bb stacker,
As is stated above, Sheryl had a buyer lined up but decided not to go through with it because she felt the shop was a lemon. Unfortunately after the shop closed the bank decided to sell the property anyway, apparently to this same buyer, for ~1/5th what Sheryl was originally looking to sell for ($114,000 and it’s now possibly going for $20,000). I was also told that Dunn Bros is happy to have it happen because they will end up with another $35,000 franchise fee for opening the store.
I suppose that the debt incurred by Sheryl and her husband in opening the store from scratch didn’t help their financial situation but I’m not sure why someone else would think that by sinking in an additional $55,000 that they would suddenly end up with something more successful than what was there before.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:40 am
How long do you think it will be before most of these strip malls (and malls) will sit empty because you can buy most of these items online? Sure there will be coffee shops and neighborhood stores, but you will have to be in an actual neighborhood. Just something to think about.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Great interview, Bill.
During the week, I sit yards away from that shop, and I have to confess I only visited it three times in the last five years. I am a Starbucks loyalist, and find Caribou and Dunn Brothers both too bitter for my taste. However, the three times I visited that location the service was always above average and I also found their pastry selection superior to the competition.
That being said, the entire Founder’s Circle area is a mess. It looks horrible and unkept and it’s confusing for anyone not intimately familiar with this part of town. In our real estate office, we constantly get walk-ins asking where they can go to get a sandwich and a soda. We direct them across the street to Panino Brothers or further down 153rd to Cedar Avenue. Part of the confusion is from the departed La Luz…the electric signs are down, but the window graffiti has never been removed nine months later.
I hate driving in to work and seeing the weeds that flank three sides of our building…I can’t even imagine what it would be like if Enjoy wasn’t behind us.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
i’m hearing enjoy is doing well??
bb
June 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Amy, you need to be sending some of them to Ramys!
June 16th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Ggeeeesssee… As Billy Walsh says, “Suits Suck” (Entourage reference). In this case, City Reps suck. That’s how it always is, or seems. They’re help you incredibly get started – but don’t rely on any assistance or grace going forward.
June 16th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Interesting dichotomy Amy brings up. Real estate office in the middle of a massive real estate failure.
What do the prospective south metro home buyers think/say when the come into the office having just seen that??? (Or do you have them meet the agents at a quaint local coffee shop…..errrr…….nevermind).
June 16th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
As everyone else has said, great interview. It was nice to be able to hear from the former owner like this.
Regarding La Luz, I always read it as La Lulz, but that’s probably just me. :)
June 17th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Hi lazylightning readers,
Thanks for the feedback!
It is SO nice to hear you liked our shop even though it didn’t survive.
We can’t express how great it makes us feel to hear positive comments after an unpleasant ending.
Thanks again!
Bill – I want to thank you for your interest and well thought out interview.
Your followup comments have been humorous and correct.
You do your homework & then some.
Sheryl Petersburg
July 10th, 2009 at 7:32 am
[...] this Star Tribune article seems to cover a very similar topic to one of my own popular posts from a few weeks ago, I have to wonder what everyone else thinks of the demise of Starbucks here in the South [...]
July 30th, 2009 at 6:40 am
Just an update that Dunn Bros. has re-opened under new ownership. Please everyone, try to patron these places and recommend them to others. On another note, my family will be walking the “dumping grounds” across the street next week to clean up all the debris…
February 28th, 2011 at 8:07 am
[...] Village has provided a press release about their new facility in a location which has been home to many failed businesses and is as of today mostly devoid of [...]