We had a decent, and correct, response to the poll about the Vikings’ playoff game yesterday. I watched the game with Josh and while they were impressive in the first half, I knew they wouldn’t be able to keep it up. It was an unfortunate but expected loss — better luck next year I suppose. This week’s poll is in direct response to this article from the Star Tribune (there are a couple others here and here on the topic) and my personal experiences driving yesterday.
I spent a lot of time driving yesterday (aside from the game and like 1.5 hours at home, I was on the road) and it was definitely one of the most stressful times in my life. The roads are in absolutely terrible condition, save for a few, and I really want to know what others think about the road conditions in Minnesota. I have lived in places that received tons more snow than we have ever had here and I have never, ever, ever, experienced the consistently terrible road conditions that we are so very lucky to experience here in the Minneapolis Metro. Aside from Cedar and 3/4 of the right-hand land of I-35, the roads were glare ice. In fact, the 6.5 miles from Northfield to I-35 were so awful that I was driving well under the speed limit and nearly in the middle of the road (crossing the double yellow lines) because there was a small, tire-wide, strip that was semi-clear there. I had to stop for gas in Lakeville and the number of trucks pulling off the road was astounding — if I didn’t have to get Kim in Bloomington then I would have stayed right there with them until morning.
Last week, when the snow melted and were headed for refreezing that night, I’m not sure why the teams weren’t out plowing the shit off the roads so that it wouldn’t refreeze into the glaze of death. I suppose it has to do with their insistence on raising taxes to cover stupid shit like new police cars which allow them to respond to scenes of accidents caused by their lack of spending elsewhere. But alas, they didn’t and one opportunity to create a safe driving environment for those driving across Dakota County was missed causing the deadly accident linked to above.
So, what do you think about the way we take care of the roads here in Minnesota? Do you really believe that it’s safe to be driving with other people who may not be as sure as you are on roads that are glare ice due to the lack of funding to routinely keep them clear? Perhaps you think that people should just grow some balls or just stay at home instead? The options are “acceptable”, “not acceptable” or “N/A”. This poll will run for one week (Monday to Monday) and I’d really like to hear what you have to say both in comment and vote format so do your thing people!
Minnesota Winter Road Conditions
- Not Acceptable (57.0%, 24 Votes)
- Acceptable (40.0%, 17 Votes)
- N/A (2.0%, 1 Votes)
Total Voters: 42
Loading ...Be sure to check out our expired polls in the archive or read through the previous posts about polls here.
Dakota Complaints Map
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January 5th, 2009 at 9:21 am
i drove to rivercentre about 9:30 and it was horrible. a lane and 1/2 or so with all the cars single file.
the fatal on 52 yesterday afternoon in igh that probably could have been prevented. the freezing rain wasn’t a big surprise so why didn’t the boys pre treat the concrete?? although regarding the fatal, what i saw indicated both folks were ejected!! whoops, seat belts?? another topic i guess.
as far as the queens go, no shock there!!
bb
January 5th, 2009 at 9:24 am
and “”The Minnesota State Patrol is blaming a patch of ice”" i think the patch of ice was from the iowa border to st.cloud and all points in between.
bb
January 5th, 2009 at 9:24 am
I spun twice in the 4 mile drive from my house to my parents in Farmington yesterday. 4 miles. Pilot Knob was glare ice. Even if the roads wqeren’t prepped, why haven’t they been sanded/salted post rain?
January 5th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Yo!
I also was driving in that stuff yesterday – we went from H-town to Albert Lea. WOW! I was very surprised at the road conditions. Going, at 9:30 AM, maybe not so much, but returning at 3:30, – my young bride and I both remarked several times, “Geez, (a euphemism sometimes also known as HOLY SHIT!) OK – so the roads were not good this morning, but where are the trucks and sanders now??? My only guess was that hey also were interested in catching the Vikings game. . . . And what’s with the way they are now sanding? Used to be they spread “stuff” all over with a rotary thingy. Now, at least in my area, they drop a bunch in a clump, and then drive on, probably for 200-300 feet, and drop another wheel barrow full. What, is it now the job of traffic to spread this stuff?
Nope – if we get just snow – 3-4″, they do a pretty good job, but if there’s any ice – Good luck with getting around.
Cheers,
January 5th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I’m sure I’ll take some flack for this one…
A couple of things to keep in mind… Salt costs have increased tremendously this year. I don’t know the exact figure, but I’m sure someone can come up with it.
Also keep in mind that counties, cities, and the state are all feeling the effect of less money to work with. Less money means less overtime and less drivers on the road. I believe snowplow drivers have to follow CDL restrictions with respect to the amount of time on the road, just like any other commercial driver. Sometimes it’s more beneficial to hold the drivers off the road for a period of time if you know you’re going to be working them a lot in the upcoming day.
I think a lot of it comes down to $$ rather than what the employees and management ‘feel’ like doing. If they spend more money on clearing the roads then people complain about higher taxes. If they conserve money then people complain about the roads not being cleared. It’s a no win situation for all involved.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:07 am
It’s still a LOT better than my hometown in Wisconsin, where I spent Christmas. The city had already used the 2008 snow removal budget, there three-foot snow drifts, and they basically said “Sorry guys, you’re just going to have to wait until 2009 for us to clear this out.”
January 5th, 2009 at 10:56 am
I’m fairly happy with the road conditions in the metro area, and outstate. My alley is plowed fairly often, and I don’t really have any troubles driving to work. But then again, I don’t complain about things very often.
I get more annoyed with the slushy parking lots and wish places would plow those more often.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Do the roads suck? Yep. Anyone’s fault? Gee, let’s see. The day before it rained and now it’s hovering at -1 degrees F yesterday. It doesn’t take rocket science people. I went on a 120 mile caching trip around Scott county and the roads were terriblly icy everywhere. All you have to do is slow down and pay attention.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
BTW, the Vikings will ALWAYS suck. I stopped caring in 1999 and I now hope they move away. No stadium from me pal.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
First of all, you have to acknowledge that we have had some of the most challenging weather conditions possible for road maintenance, all in a very short period of time. Saturday afternoon, you had 15 degrees on the ground, but 35-degree air aloft, causing a fine mist that would immediately freeze when it touched the ground (or parked cars or whatever).
Beyond that, I consider that many of the plowing resources were still working to clear the previous snowfall. My opinion is that it’s just unrealistic to think that the cities, county, state can simultaneously be clearing the last snowfall and “pretreat” every inch of the thousands of miles of roads.
I drove many of the same roads being mentioned here over the weekend. On Saturday evening, I set out at 3:45, right when the freezing rain started, drove from Burnsville, across County 46 to Pilot Knob, and dropped the kids off at grandma’s house off Pilot Knob in Farmington. Then, we drove up into downtown Minneapolis, had dinner and returned (incidentally, it took us for-freaking-ever to get home as we were stuck behind a diagonal row of 5 snowplows on Cedar Avenue from 494 all the way to 35E). On Saturday morning, we did the same route down Pilot Knob, up to Target, back to grandma’s to pick up a forgotten item and back home to Burnsville.
On Pilot Knob, just south of 46, there was glare/black ice from the west wind at 20mph moving snow from the open field onto the road. There were a couple of rear-enders as I approached. There is no road treatment in the world that could have prevented that stretch of ice. However, 99.99% of the people passing through were being careful and intelligent enough to drive slowly, stay in their lane, leave a safe distance both in the front AND to the sides, and not get into a crash even before the sand crew was notified and arrived on scene.
Everyone is going to encounter a short stretch of road that happens to be unsheltered from a peculiar wind or unforseeable weather condition out of the thousands of miles of roads that exist in the county. There is no way for the cities, counties and state to be able to handle every patch of black ice immediately. Sometimes there will be glare ice for a while until the crew can get there.
My vote is for “acceptable” unless “commendable” becomes an option. Personally, I think winter road maintenance is one of very few areas of government service that is done very well.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I rarely complement a government service, but I had no problems all weekend. I put on 200+ miles in the metro area since friday. All 55+ mph in my Expedition.
Sat night saw the 6 trucks it takes to clear 394 go by every 30 mins from my office.
Maybe all our transportation money hasn’t been diverted to mass transit like I thought. ???
January 5th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
I haven’t had any problems with ice, I was out on Saturday night and from my perspective the roads looked worse than they actually were. This is just winter in Minnesota, I haven’t noticed anything different from other years.
However, I did just return from Good Year where I dropped $140 to replace an almost new tire that was damaged from a pothole on 35W NB in Burnsville. When I hit the pothole, It was an abrupt jolt, and within a 1/2 mile I noticed 2-3 vehicles on the side of the road changing tires.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I think the state/county/city whoever does an incredible job. Having lived for the better part of a decade in South Dakota, I can tell you they really do a great job here.
In South Dakota, the official operating procedure for dealing with snow and ice on the road is “God put it there, God will take it away when he is ready.”
Seriously, having spent alot of time in the upper midwest (Iowa/South Dakota/MN and quite a bit of time in Colorado) I feel like the crews here in MN do a great job. I also feel like people who dont plan for the weather, or who feel they have some sort of entitlement to clean/clear/dry roads should be sitting in the ditch watching all of the careful people drive by, so my opinion may be biased.
I guess it just never occurred to me that I should have a personal crew on call so that the roads in any direction I choose to drive will always be clear and dry. Its winter, we live in the north. It has snowed alot. Black Ice develops at sub zero temps from the condensation given off by your car exhaust. Ice and/or the blue stuff ceases to be be effective below certain temps/wind chills. Oh, and the guys out there trying to keep the roads clear have to contend with mother nature, drunk drivers, dumb drivers, time constraints, budget constraints, and probably some other things I have not thought of.
I think they do a pretty good job.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
This was a tough question for me. I lived in ND and MT and just spent 4 days in Grand Forks. Compared to Fargo the conditions in Minneapolis aren’t that bad. But overall I’m not happy with the road conditions. There are a lot of spots that are extremely icy and snow packed.
Then again the citizens of Minneapolis seem to think that the roads should be perfect 4 hours after a snow storm, people in the rural areas of the country assume that the roads will be icy and snow packed from the first snowfall until spring.
I ended up voting Unacceptable only because they are much worse than they have been the previously. If this had been my first winter of driving here I would have rated them acceptable.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
“I voted Unacceptable only because they are much worse than they have been…”
More food for thought: December was the 8th wettest and 14th coldest since 1895 (yes…114 years). Dozens of locations in MN had RECORD snowfalls for the month. In many locations, we had as many -20 degree low temps as we normally do in a whole winter. Snowfall at MSP airport was just outside the top 10 in recorded history. 16 out of the first 18 days had precipitation (I lost track over the holidays).
January 5th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Here is some info on the limitations of Salt/DeIcers. I get the feeling that many people do not understand how impossible it is to deice roads when the temps fall far below zero. It simply cant be done. Further, it can actually cause dangerous situations that may not have otherwised happened.
From the WI DOT web site:
Q. What are the limitations of road salt?
The minimum practical application range for salt is a pavement temperature of 15-20°F and above. While salt will melt snow and ice down to a pavement temperature of -6°F, it can melt over five times as much ice at 30°F as at 20°F. Thus the effectiveness of salt is sensitive to small differences in pavement temperature. Counties will attempt to apply only the amount required for temperature, time and use. Too little and the roadway will refreeze, too much is a waste of money and resources.
When the pavement temperature drops below 15°F the effectiveness of salt is decreased significantly. At these lower temperatures, the county highway departments will typically cease straight salt applications and begin adding other chemicals to the salt such as calcium chloride or magnesium chloride that will lower the freezing point even further.
Wind conditions must also be considered when deciding on whether to apply salt or other de-icing agents. As the temperatures drop and the snow becomes dryer, the wind can begin to blow the snow across the pavement. If there is a chemical residue left on the pavement from a previous salt application, blowing snow can be attracted to the residue and stick to the pavement creating hazardous conditions that would not have existed if no de-icing agents were previously applied. This is why counties are sometimes reluctant to apply salt or chemicals when the pavement temperatures are below 15°F. The effectiveness of salt can also be affected by the type of pavement. For example, salt works better on new asphaltic (blacktop) pavements than on tined concrete pavements.
The salt being used today typically includes other ice melting de-icing agents to increase its effectiveness at lower temperatures and to help it better adhere to the pavement. Adding other de-icing agents to the salt also reduces the number of applications needed. WisDOT is always looking for new ways to reduce the amount of chlorides needed to return the roadways to safe winter driving conditions. Sometimes counties use sand and other abrasives at lower temperatures to improve friction on the roadway. Abrasives have no ice melting properties and thus their use is limited.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Having attended college in ND, I can easily attest they have some of the worst roads in the wintertime. They do not use salt and I swear it takes a 6″ snowfall before you even see a plow. For the most part, I’m pretty pleased with the roads around me in Rosemount and the highways I’ve traveled. I do think Lakeville does a pretty rotten job, at least if the roads by my sister’s home are any indication.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Chad wrote:
“God put it there, God will take it away when he is ready.â€
OMG Seriously? I love it! That is our response to “You should shovel your driveway!” We figure not shoveling is one of the perks of having a 4 wheel drive SUV and an all wheel drive car. It always melts eventually! ;)
January 6th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I voted “acceptable,” as I generally think the roads were as good as they could get them given the conditions.
Now, if we’re talking about sidewalks, however, it would be a big unacceptable from me, at least near where I live (downtown Minneapolis, however, has been fine). I fully realize that roads have to take precedence, but people don’t stop using sidewalks and trails just because it’s winter.
January 7th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
I’ve lived in MN all my live, and driven for over 1/2 of it now. Never have I been in a ditch, accident or other traffic incident. Roads suck, yes, learn to drive in it, stay in, or get in the right lane.
I drive my SUV in 4WD, and go faster than most, but I’m well aware of the capabilities of my driving, and my surroundings. Many a time have I maneuvered out of accidents, or cars skidding towards me. No, I don’t drive 70 in a blizzard, that’s stupid, but I also don’t feel the need to go 10mph when it snows.
The roads leaving my city en route to work get crappier, the farther into the city you go, because lemmings slow down to a crawl, packing the snow down, vs. blowing the fluffy crap off the road.
Get with it, or get out of my way.
January 7th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Pilot knob was the worst road I’ve ever driven on from 140th into Farmington on Sunday night. I figured by Monday they would have to do something for the moring commute, WRONG. If I wasn’t so damn busy at work and if I knew who was responsible for salting/sanding pilot knob I would have called and chewed someones ass, not that it would have helped but it would have made me feel a little better about tripling my drive time on pilot knob on Monday morning when 140th and Cedar were just fine.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Born and raised Minnesotan. After 50 years the last 4 winters have left me thinking. Isn’t better to place road tax money in snow removal than fancy rails on bridges? Like the ones going into Minneapolis that were also torn down after a few years for the “Improvement” Is one life cost effective to more road crews out? I have seen even less trucks out this season with the return of the Minnesota winter. Lets call it a stimulus plan. We get to arrive at work safely while others are newly hired to help with plowing. Oh and Tailgaters were never part of Minnesota friendly plan.
June 29th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
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