According to this article which appeared in the StarTribune, the Minnesota Vikings attended a Burnsville/Lakeville Chamber luncheon to try and sell the need to build a new stadium to those in the local business and political community. While the Vikings continue to repeat, over and over again, their desire to stay as long as a new billion dollar facility is built for them one has to wonder what good they felt it would do to come to Dakota County to try and sell their favored plan.
From the article:
Vikings officials echoed that call for action. At a stadium pep rally during a Lakeville and Burnsville chambers of commerce luncheon, Vice President of Stadium Development Lester Bagley said the team’s Dome lease is up “and we need to get this done.”
“We were disappointed when one of the legislators said, ‘No special session this year’ … because taking the deadline away from this issue was not helpful,” Bagley said. “We were moving, there was energy, there was momentum toward a plan, a solution. We were getting there and all of a sudden we took the pressure off.”
While the article may not be covering all that happened at the luncheon, it appears that little was said which would have helped to rally support for the Vikings organization in Dakota County. However the lack of discussion may have been intentional as some may wonder what the Vikings’ preference for building in Arden Hills would do to bolster business South of the River. Were business owners in Burnsville and Lakeville really feeling a sense of urgency with all of this and do they really mind if the pressure was removed?
What do you think about the Vikings bringing the stadium debate to Dakota County? Do you think that keeping the Vikings in Minnesota but moving them to the organization’s preferred location in Arden Hills will have a positive impact on Burnsville and Lakeville businesses? What about your personal feelings about the stadium plan and partially veiled threats by the team that they’ll up and move if they don’t get their way? Whatever you have to say about this one go ahead and comment on as I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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November 10th, 2011 at 8:10 am
Zigi is a BILLIONAIRE! He doesn’t need to pick our pockets! I, for one, will be watching our legislative reps to see who they’re working for – billionaires/corporate subsidies, or the people who elected them. This is going to be a very nasty battle.
November 10th, 2011 at 8:23 am
If anything, I would think that the local legislators would be less inclined to support the Vikings if they are building up in Arden Hills, as opposed to somewhere closer.
November 10th, 2011 at 8:33 am
I will agree to pay higher taxes if the Vikings agree to move away and never come back. I’m an anti-tax kind of guy, but the drop in domestic assaults, sexual assaults, and the end of embarrassing ineptitude on the field will be more than worth it.
November 10th, 2011 at 8:53 am
With absolutely no inside knowledge, I am convinced that the Vikings have convinced Surly to build their destination brewery on the Arden Hills Vikings site. It just makes too much sense. A year round destination that would be the cornerstone of the game day entertainment both before and after the game.
I realize that Surly has nothing to do with why the Vikings are hanging out in the South Metro. I am supposing that they are just posturing no differently than any other political douche would when selling their reasoning for using tax dollars to pay for the 10 event a year building.
I am not as against using some tax dollars to develop this project. There is a significant revenue advantage to having the Vikings vs. not having them. Love them or hate them, it does add to the quality of life for many people in Minnesota, even if they never go to a game personally.
The bitching was pretty loud when the Twins were looking for tax dollars as well, which they got and I pay every time I do something downtown. Those people complaining about Target Field sure were scarce when the place opened up. I suspect the same if and when the Vikings open up their palace.
Lastly, I don’t really buy into the “giving money to billionaires” argument. The Vikings are a business with a unique value to a community that many people want to pay to keep. If the numbers work for the business, the government (including the jobs, taxes and fees that stay in Minnesota because of the team) and the soft “value” of having a “team” that is within a community, than I say it is worth figuring out. I am pretty sure my tax dollars pay for a lot of things I don’t benefit from, including the Vikings, but I am fine that it works that way.
Full disclosure. I am a huge NFL fan and watch as many games as I can. But, I have not spent a penny on the Vikings in probably 20 years (no tickets, no jerseys, etc), with the exception of whatever share they get of my NFL Sunday Ticket Package in which the Vikings are not one of my options.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:00 am
The Twins stadium has more than 8 game days a year and was strategically placed in an area that didn’t require mass transit to be moved quite as far as the site in Arden Hills will.
I am a Vikings fan but I am anti-tax, especially for a project such as this and double especially for a project where the Wilfs are likely to profit from the land around the stadium. The Vikings organization can make their money on what happens *inside* the stadium when a game happens, nothing more IMO.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:34 am
Here are some thoughts from Thisweek’s Larry Werner FWIW: http://www.thisweeklive.com/2011/11/10/entertainment-is-worth-public-support/
November 10th, 2011 at 10:26 am
I stopped reading after the first line: “As the guy who is lucky enough to manage the largest news organization south of the river…”
November 10th, 2011 at 10:47 am
First thought: No Way.
Second thought: Don’t let the door hit you …
The Vikings are not an economic asset to the state. If they weren’t here, people would spend their money on something else.
That said, I get it, that people want everyone else to pay for their goodies. A stadium for the favorite team is on par with having the taxpayers build a golf course, arts theater, etc.
It’s a testimony to the nature of spectator sports that people are willing to tax themselves to, as Jerry Seinfeld observed, cheer for laundry. Me, I’d rather get my sports thrills by being an active participant in activities at which I can be reasonably successful (cycling, golf, skiing, etc.)
November 10th, 2011 at 11:07 am
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November 10th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I am somewhat indifferent. On one hand, I hate to see my tax dollars go to pay for something I will then have to pay to attend. Sounds like the car pool lane to me.
On the other hand, if MN does not kick in some money they Vikings will go someplace else. The idea that they wont is just silly. The Wilfs have been great owners, although the product on the field does not reflect the effort and money they have put into building a contender. Cant blame them though, they are the polar opposite of Red McCombs.
To comment number 8, thats just silly. Its a huge financial boon to the state. Jobs, tax revenue, income taxes, and millions of dollars of revenue from people coming in from out of state to see a game. I cant tell you if this is enough to justify buidling a stadium, but there is certainly a financial impact to the state and of course the host community to getting a stadium built.
I just wish madam mayor had jumped in early and proposed the burnsville riverfront for the new complex, instead of Arden Hills!
November 10th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
I cannot see how the SOTR suburban leaders should really feel any sense of urgency.
Certainly there is revenue stream to the area from the Vikings… but most studies of this matter (sports franchise financial input to a metro area) support
J’s comment that entertainment money just gets spent elsewhere.
I object to a general tax to support the building, but some type of user fee or even the gambling plan has no problem from me. As a hunter and fisherman i do object to the use of the Legacy fund money being diverted.
In the end frankly i could care less if the Vikings are here or not, but i would prefer they stay just because it is one more piece of entertainment possible to a major metro area. Although i would never go to a game, everything I hear is that the attending fan base is pretty loutish, certainly not all, but enough to make the experience less than fun.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
The only reason why private parties are unable to put forward the dollars is because some idiot cities, years ago, set the precedent that the people buying the tickets should pay. Now they all expect it, and the sad thing is, there are cities that still will. I believe there are very strong economic advantages to having a national football team in your town. Just like having a national baseball team, the services and businesses and the people and their jobs that all surround such things is just amazing. Without those events, all that either goes away or scales down significantly.
I think it is a mistake to build something where no true infrastructure to support it exists. They’d do better to build it up near the North Star Rail line in St. Cloud rather than Arden Hills.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
I could see some subsidy for a stadium, but $650 million or more when our state is already in such a financial mess? I have a hard time justifying that for something that is only used a few times a year. The Metrodome is not a nice stadium, but when it comes down to it the place is only obsolete because they can’t whore enough money out of it. It just got a new roof and turf. They could easily play there for another 15-20 years if the economics of the NFL weren’t so insane. Every year player contracts get more and more insane. Adrian Peterson Alone is due for a $100 million with his latest contract. Do we really want to impose a sales tax on the general population (including the poor) in this economy so we can transfer our money to millionaire players and a billionaire owner?
I love the NFL and I don’t want to see the Vikings leave. I just feel that the economics of the sport have gotten way out of hand and $650 million is way too rich of a handout for a sports team.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
What kind of jobs are actually created by the Vikings existence? Are they living wage family supporting jobs or are they the picking up a part-time job at Buffalo Wild Wings during the season type? It makes a difference to me.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If the stadium is not built in downtown Minneapolis it will not get built. Period. End of story.
Most of the power brokers (i.e. legislators) that matter in Minnesota live in and around Minneapolis and the western suburbs. To try to get a stadium bill passed that would locate it east of the Mississippi river is not going to have any traction.
Those of you who have lived in MN for a while may remember a Patrick Reusse column printed when the Metrodome was approved where he wrote about a group of businessmen and legislators called “The Brotherhood”. These were the movers and shakers of MN at the time and they engineered the whole thing.
Even though the original “Brotherhood” does not exist, a new one has taken its place and that is the holdup.
The bottom line is Ziggi can and most likely will move this team anywhere (and it aint going to be LA either – that’s the NFL’s red herring to extort money from existing locales) a city that is willing to kiss his ass for the privilege of having an NFL team.
It was a great run. Time to root for the Packers I guess.
November 11th, 2011 at 10:28 am
While I am not as glum as Nurd about the prospects of keeping the team, I do think people need to realize that it is 100% certain that if a stadium deal is not done here the Vikings will be leaving.
That is not a commentary on if public money should be used or not. Its just a statement of fact. No stadium, no team. The idea of using some obscure clause in the metrodome lease to make them stay another year will do nothing but postpone the inevitable, and likely the powers that be know this but are hopeful they can delay long enough to pass the problem off to someone else.
November 11th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
Cabbies, grounds workers, security personnel, vendors and staff, maintenance staff, management staff, increased hotel business during games, increased food businesses, and all the staff related to that. Nuts and Bolts suppliers, light bulb suppliers, all the other materials necessary to operate the facilities. All of these people benefit from having a professional sports organization in town.
January 24th, 2012 at 7:40 am
The reports all over the local news today are about Dayton’s insistence that the Vikings use the Metrodome site or nothing in this legislative year: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2012/01/vikes-told-its-metrodome-or-nothing.html
What do you think about it? Do you think the Vikings will walk? Do you agree that the Metrodome site is the most viable even with games being pushed to the beer-less, smaller, and “more costly” TCF Bank stadium?
January 24th, 2012 at 8:10 am
Oh, if the Vikings move to TCF for a few years, there will be beer.
Personally, I don’t care if they move. Even though I watch all the Viking games, you couldn’t bring a limo to my house and back to drive me to watch the game from the sidelines with free Surly and food all day for free.
Football is a game made for television. Going to a football game is pretty much sitting there for three hours mostly waiting for commercials to end, and when they do you get some action that lasts 7 seconds only to wait 40 more seconds to watch 7 more seconds of playing. Yawn.
January 24th, 2012 at 8:22 am
I am sad to see this. I also dont understand it. To be clear, the Govenor is saying the state will help build a NEW stadium at the current location. He is not saying they have to play in the metrodome or nothing.
I thought the Linden Ave site made more sense, as it puts the stadium right down next to the parking structures and downtown businesses instead of a few miles away. Its not the end of the world, and I would guess the Vikings will take the deal rather than moving to another town, which is a good thing I think.
January 24th, 2012 at 8:25 am
Chad, I’m confused by your statement. There are plenty of parking structures in the vicinity of the Metrodome and also plenty of businesses as well. What did you mean exactly?
January 24th, 2012 at 8:26 am
I don’t want the Vikings to move but I also don’t want to pay for Wilf’s new ATM. I do think the Vikes will walk. Wilf didn’t make his fortune by backing down every time he’s tried to screw people over.
January 24th, 2012 at 9:16 am
The stadium will happen…just not this year. The Metrodome option is the most disruptive for the Vikings as switching to outdoor play when you have played indoors all of these years impacts the kind of players that they would draft/cut/sign.
Or maybe they’ll beat Buffalo to the punch and move to Toronto.
I do find it odd that the Arden Hills site didn’t receive any EPA superfund money to clean it up and so now it will cost millions to do it for anyone that wants to buy it?
They’ll never get rid of it if that’s the case.
January 24th, 2012 at 9:56 am
Bill, parking for a Vikings game, in comparison to a Twins game, is a pain in the arse and is scattered across several ramps and surface lots which are too small for the demand on game day. Likely it has not made sense to do anything about it as the Vikings only host a small number of home events and other draws to the Metrodome likely dont the area in the same way. So, parking near Target field, while possibly not quite adequeat for a Vikings home game, is already better than what is near the metrodome.
As to businesses, there are very few bars, restaurants, clubs, ect near the metrodome. The Linden Ave site is, I think from the pictures, just on the other side of the Target Field parking structure, which would make it more or less across the street from 1st Ave, with extremely close access to all of the downtown restaurants, night life, parking, etc. Its a better location in my opinion.
January 24th, 2012 at 10:02 am
Chad,
Thanks for the clarification. I haven’t parked near the Metrodome in years (I found a lot 4 blocks from there when the Twins still played at the Dome for $4 and used that) as I ride the train. Guess I never considered 4 blocks to be a problem but I can certainly see where some would prefer more centralized parking for tailgating a football game.
Then there’s the bars. There are several bars within short walking distance of the Metrodome, including four within a block, but you’re right, you’re much closer to a wider array of bars near the Basilica. Again, not a concern for me prior to a game but I could see where many would appreciate that.
January 24th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
I was not aware there were four bars within a block of the metrodome. Huberts is there, and I guess you could count Spaghetti Factory or whatever its called. Those are the only two actual businesses I am aware of, although I am sure there are any number of small neighborhood type places nearby. The sporadic events hosted dont seem to have been able to sustain more of a pre or post game atmosphere, similar to what is downtown and/or on West 7th near the Xcel. Thats just my opinion, but seems to be shared by the Vikings.
Walking 4 blocks is not a big deal, but, as you noted, its not ideal for tailgating or any sort of pregame activity. In addition, the last time I went to a game, every lot within several blocks was $20 for football game parking. I am sure I may have missed some that were priced lower, but we parked out past the armory and paid $20.
I was not a fan of Arden Hills, mainly do to the long drive from my house, but of the possible locations, Linden Ave seemed to make the most sense to me.
January 24th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Grumpy’s
Hubert’s
Spill the Wine
- I concede this isn’t really a bar meant for most stereotypical football fans
Maxwell’s
—
Rumor mill now has it that Wilf will begrudgingly accept the Metrodome site: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19807112
January 24th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
I cannot believe Hubert’s is still open (the one by the dome).
I get the location is so convenient, but for a bar to charge almost Metrodome prices for Bud Light or whatever crap they sell there just to clip people who went to 91 games a year between the Twins and Vikings is a place that deserves no business when there is not an event.
January 24th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
They actually have a decent happy hour for downtown. $2.50 domestics and 1/2 off apps. *shrug*
January 24th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
I did not realize that the old Huberts remained open, and would agree regarding Spill the Wine. Certainly not the type of destination places you have downtown and/or over on 7th Street. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out. I would assume he will happily take the metrodome site and keep this loyal fan base rather than start over in L.A.
January 26th, 2012 at 10:27 am
Interesting editorial in todays STRIB regardind the victory by the church to block the Linden Ave location.
January 27th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
:D I wonder if the church would have put up any resistance at all if Tebow was the Viking QB?
January 27th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
:D Tebow’s not Catholic, so probably not!
February 13th, 2012 at 8:42 am
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2012/02/poll-finds-wariness-of-need-for-new.html