Swine Flu Injection originally uploaded by Ingmar Zahorsky
Last year I asked, in a poll, how many of you get a flu shots. While I’m not going to do another poll for it, I’m interested in how your opinions may have changed this year for a variety of reasons especially H1N1.
Just yesterday the Pioneer Press reported that 28% of Eastview Elementary students were out with flu-like symptoms. I know that just two weeks ago both my wife and I were out with a serious cold (I was diagnosed with walking pneumonia symptoms and given a strong antibiotic to fight it off) keeping us home for several days that week (ahh the joys of being able to work from home).
Being that we are expecting a child, our doctor flat out told us that we will be immunized against H1N1 and the flu even though either may not do anything to stop the flu–especially with it spreading as early as it seems to be around here. As I mentioned in the flu poll last year, the only time I contracted the flu was when I got the shot. I suppose I have to take that risk this year being that I do not want anything happening to my child in the next year.
So, based on the fact that so many school aged children are out sick this year already, I am interested in knowing how many of you are fearing the worst and are changing the way you immunize yourself or protect yourself from the threat of H1N1 or other virulent strains of the flu that may appear.
Perhaps you think that the majority of absences at Eastview are due to fear or overprotective parents and you will continue to go shotless this year. Whatever you think about what flu-like symptoms are going around here in Minnesota these days, go ahead and comment on!
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September 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 am
My wife is expecting as well (due end of February) and neither of us has any plans of being vaccinated.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
This year like every year, I will do what the doc orders and get the shot. I’m guessing the doctor knows what he is talking about so I should listen.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I will get the regular flu shot free through my work, so I will go ahead and get it. I haven’t gotten it every year, but since I have not suffered any ill effects from it in the past, I don’t see any reason not to get it now.
As for the H1N1 vaccination, I guess that will depend on how soon its available, how it will be distributed, who will get access to it first, etc.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:56 pm
I never got them until we had a child. Now I get it each year. Its free through my job. My wife will get it at hers, and our child will get it at our Dr’s office I guess. I have no idea on H1N1. I dont plan on paying for it for me, but if the Dr says we should get it for our 2 year old, I think we will.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm
I am torn about this. I’m not usually one to go out and get vaccinated. I’m kinda skeptical of vaccinations. I have never had a flu shot. However, I have kind of a weak immune system, and tend to get sick easily. On one hand, I’m a little scared to get the vaccine, because I’m afraid it will make me sick. On the other hand, since the flu is highly contagious, chances are I’ll get it anyhow and be more sick than I would have been had I just gotten the vaccine. I guess it will depend on how much the H1N1 vaccine costs (and whether or not I have already got it by the time the vaccine arrives!). I probably won’t bother with the regular flu shot.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
“My wife is expecting as well (due end of February) and neither of us has any plans of being vaccinated.”
What?? Why would you not get the vaccine? Look – there are 100′s of strains of the flu – but MAYBE the one that will infect you will be one of the strains that the vaccine prevents. It’s pretty harmless, and you’re a big boy now.
Oh – and Alissa – the vaccine CAN”T make you sick with the flu – Nope – not possible.
I WILL get all of them – plus pneumonia, Shingles, and H1N1.
Signed
A Non-infectious Irving
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
“My wife is expecting as well (due end of February) and neither of us has any plans of being vaccinated.”
What?? Why would you not get the vaccine? Look – there are 100′s of strains of the flu – but MAYBE the one that will infect you will be one of the strains that the vaccine prevents. It’s pretty harmless, and you’re a big boy now.
Oh – and Alissa – the vaccine CAN”T make you sick with the flu – Nope – not possible.
I WILL get all of them – plus pneumonia, Shingles, and H1N1.
Cheers,
A Non-infectious Irving
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I won’t get vaccinated. I’m surrounded by dirty children all day long. 1/3 of my homeroom class was absent today (9/27) and even more went home during the day with fevers 100 degrees +.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:20 pm
1. This is likely the 1976 swine flu all over again. In other words, it’s very likely much ado about nothing.
2. 99% of H1N1 cases are mild. 30-50% of people infected have little or no symptoms. Since the outbreak there have been more deaths due to medical mishaps than there have been due to H1N1. Why are we freaking out?!?
3. We have no idea how safe this vaccine really is. This is the fastest vaccine development in history and we know that the risks of the vaccine are not 0%. Taking those odds with the odds in point 2, I’d rather avoid the vaccine.
4. I tend to be minimalist with antibacterials, antibiotics, and vaccines. Our bodies are meant to fight germs and disease and if our bodies never have to fight anything, they become weaker. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not entirely opposed to vaccines, antibiotics, etc. I just think we need to use caution with how we apply these things to our bodies and I’m not convinced that the H1N1 vaccine is necessary anymore than the normal flu vaccine is necessary.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
“There is a good deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good.”
-J. Anthony Morris, former chief vaccine control officer for the FDA
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:20 pm
My family has already had their seasonal flu shots, earlier this year than normal because of the hype, because I believe there’s no reason not to. Insurance covers preventive care at 100% and it takes one minute. We aren’t eligibile for the H1N1 vaccine since none of us falls into a high-risk category. I likely wouldn’t choose to get it anyway because they’re ramrodding the vaccine though development and approval and that gives me pause.
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Uh…no, Sandy, there really isn’t any scientific basis for what Morris is saying.
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Enough of the politically correct Hormel endorsed H1N1 please. It’s the fricken pig flu.
I read once that during the 70′s pig flu more folks died from the vaccine than the illness itself. Combine that with the fact that this was rushed and I simply don’t trust it. The fact that it’s been approved by the FDA makes me even more uncomfortable. No thanks.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
I’ve gotten the flu shot in past years when it has been free or dirt cheap to me and presented at work. This year I will pay to get the flu shot as we’re aiming to have a kid. And despite my hudband’s normal aversion, he will too. Yes, it’s a crap shoot, but I’d hate to regret not getting it if it truly is a threat to me/potential kid.
Also, I agree we need to learn from past mistakes. I would expect the scientists learned from whatever happened 30 years ago, a lifetime in scientific advancements.
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:01 am
So, if pregnant women are “required” to get the flu shot, what if the mom can’t? Are their babies more likely to contract some horrible disease? I tend to think no. I’m guessing someday I’ll be pregnant, I won’t get a flu shot and my kid will be just fine. I get the fear of being a new parent, but plenty of pregnant women don’t get vaccinated and they and their children are just fine.
I fell like we live in such a culture of fear, where is the fear coming from?
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:21 am
Personally I’d rather die from swine flu than complications from the vaccine. At least then I know I died naturally and not due to some man made medical accident.
I’m also like Joey as I’m not a fan of medications, pills, antibiotics, etc. We live in a society obsessed with drugs (pushed by kickbacks to medical professionals) and antibiotics/bacterial products. People, the reason we’ve made it so far is due to natural resistance and natural selection. By destroying those natural processes with chemicals we’re going to end up a lot worse off in the long run than we would have otherwise.
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 am
I also agree with Joey and Bill. Many shots than have been around for years have problems, mostly due to quality control, but there are also shots that the makers DON’T KNOW how they affect non-adults. Now, we are being pressured into taking a shot that is being rushed to market? Talk about a crap shoot. I wonder how many people in government own stock in the company that is making the H1N1 vaccine?
A word about doctors, what makes you think they know what is in your best interest in health. They get their info from big pharma who tells them we got this drug that cures X-Y-Z and then gives them free smaples and perhaps other perks. Sorry, I won’t blindly listen to someone who gets a majority of their info from companies who profit on our un-wellbeing.
I got the flu shot one time and that was a mistake. I never had a worse season of being sick.
Last comment, feel free to get vaccinated for everything under the sun, people are living to long as it is and we need to weed people out. Besides, sick people are good for the economy.
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/23/i-went-to-afghanistan-and-all-i-got-was-h1n1/
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Irving Washinton is RIGHT – you CANNOT get the flu from a flu shot.
I’ve gotten the flu shot for the past few years and when the neighborhood Walgreen’s was offering them over the Labor Day weekend I got mine, which was probably about a month earlier than they’re usually available.
Although I’d like to get the H1N1 shot I have serious doubts that I’ll be eligible, being a 30-something healthy individual.
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Dawnmarie- First pregnant women are strongly advised to get the H1N1 flu shot, it’s not required, just like any other medical treatment you have the right to choose. Bill’s wording may have thrown you off there.
Ok, here is why pregnant women getting the H1N1 shot is important. Pregnant women represent 1% of the US population, therefore pregnant women should represent 1% of the cases of people coming down with H1N1. Here is the rub, 6% of the people coming down with H1N1 are pregnant AND we are much more likely than the general population to be hospitalized and experience serious complications including the loss of our child. This is all very, very different from the regular seasonal flu. So that’s where the fear comes from. And honestly it pissed me off to read your uninformed rambling poo pooing the need for the shot. I hope to god some pregnant women isn’t influenced by your post.
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:38 pm
The Wife, I can’t get a shot due to an allergy, I did not mean to offend. If I was pregnant and I could, I would.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:19 pm
6% vs. 1% just isn’t enough to give me cause to fear. Don’t get me wrong, if my wife wanted it I’d be all for it (and I’d get it too if she wanted me to). But the truth is far more people die from seasonal flu and still over 85% of pregnant women aren’t vaccinated against that. Everyone acknowledges that there are risks to not getting it AND risks to getting it and everyone just has to do their own risk-benefit analysis and decide for themselves.
I thought dawnmarie’s post was pretty innocent…now sure why it touched off The Wife like it did.
Wow Bill, way to touch a nerve with this post. It’s almost like you know a thing or two about riling people up ;)
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:58 pm
From Bill:
“People, the reason we’ve made it so far is due to natural resistance and natural selection. By destroying those natural processes with chemicals we’re going to end up a lot worse off in the long run than we would have otherwise.”
Well put. The synthetic toxins (plastics leaching, drugs, food additives) that we are accumulating in our bodies are damaging our immune systems (and the rest of our body chemistry as well). People (even scientists) who speak up about it are labeled as wackos.
Tim, are you a scientist who is not in the employ of a drug company and who has studied vaccinations extensively? Or are you just a the-daddy-government-is-taking-care-of-me scoffer?
September 23rd, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I think I’m going to get a whole bunch of flu shots just to be safe.
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Have you already had all of the children that you want to have?
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“But the truth is far more people die from seasonal flu and still over 85% of pregnant women aren’t vaccinated against that” -Joey-
Yah, and like I said seasonal flu doesn’t impact pregnant women in the same way that H1N1 flu does. So making decisions based on how the seasonal flu acts doesn’t make sense to me.
Also the fact that pregnant women are over represented in the off season for the flu concerns me. Once we get into the actual flu season will the 6% number increase? Also one thing I didn’t include earlier is that pregnant women represent 6% of H1N1 cases when we should represent 1% AND pregnant women represent 6% of confirmed H1N1 fatalities. So not only are we contracting H1N1 way more than we should be for our population size we are also dying way more than we should be.
Okay so let’s assume that the current predictions for 30%-50% of the US population contracting swine flu is correct. Now for most people you are going to be no worse off than if you had gotten the seasonal flu, some may not even realize they have it. Then let’s assume that the current % of pregnant women coming down with swine flu remains the same. So 6% of that huge population of people that come down with swine flu are going to be pregnant. That’s a lot of pregnant women and six times the number that one would expect to see. So call me crazy, I’m concerned. I recognize that you are free to make your own decisions and have your own opinions, I’m just saying.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:01 pm
6% of deaths – not overall cases – have been with pregnant women, and those numbers are as of July (if you’re using the same sources I am). That’s 15 out of 266 – and that’s only the cases the CDC has actually investigated, so it’s still very incomplete.
To say the least, that sample size is extremely small.
I imagine that pregnant women would be more vulnerable if they contract H1N1 than would the general population, but that goes for any number of illnesses.
Again, each person has to weigh the risks and benefits. As far as my wife is concerned (and I agree with her), the benefits don’t outweigh the risks.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
For the record, because I think my post started this:
1. I am pro vaccine, I will vaccinate any children I have.
2. I question the flu shot, only because I can’t get one, but I don’t think that means I can never have children. But sometimes, I’m terrified that because I can’t get one, something horrible will happen.
3. There is no 3.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:05 pm
No, you did not start this, Bill did. Do not take responsibility for Bill’s mess!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:26 pm
I said exactly the same thing to dmh off-site. Are you spying on my chats?!
Oh and yeah everything is my fault up to and including restaurants closing and Burnsville wasting millions. Sorry bout that folks! :-)
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Oh Bill, that was YOU? Are you claiming responsibility for lack of interest in George Jones and the orchestra shell deficiency too? Are you secretly kindred spirits with Queen Kautz?
Thanks for coming clean. :-)
September 24th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Yes, and then some.
(ha ha)
September 24th, 2009 at 11:23 am
No, Sandy, I’m not a scientist. But I am someone who understands the difference between correlation and causation, how to read a study, and how to tell junk science from quality scholarly research.
(Though, if people really want to keep score, my older brother is a research scientist — molecular pharmacology, to be exact — who works for an academic institution, and he and I have talked about this subject. Like I said, I don’t know if I will get the H1N1 shot yet, and think it might be a little early to make that call, but the overall effectiveness of vaccinations through history is not in question)
September 24th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bill said: “People, the reason we’ve made it so far is due to natural resistance and natural selection.”
While I agree somewhat, that is long since out the window. No longer do you have to be able to run faster, jump farther or think quickly to survive and procreate. Its entirely possible for people who cant finish 6th grade to have any number of children they wish. If you believe in evolution I find it impossible to understand that you cant also see that the opposite would be possible and in fact likely.
Once upon a time if a kid stuck his head in a lions mouth, he would be dead and spare the gene pool his contribution. Now the firemen come, saw the tooth off the statue and give it to the kid as a momento to his stupidity. He will probalby go on to have a dozen kids.
Sorry, kinda off topic, but true.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Chad,
You’re looking at it from the completely opposite point of view that I am. As I said before, there was a time when no one used antibacterial soap, didn’t fill their bodies with unnecessary antibiotics, and didn’t fuck with nature the way we do now. While what you say is true, people will continue on because we’ve advanced to a point where we can fight back most problems–what you didn’t mention is the fact that because of the antibiotics (in the water we drink, in the fish we consume and in the soap we wash so frequently to avoid getting sick–which apparently won’t help with any flu) it’s the viruses which have evolved in a much more rapid manner than any human ever could.
This, coupled with our global environment means these viruses spread faster and farther than ever before allowing more mutations and more bullshit that we cannot stop. We will be our own downfall people and it all starts because no one sells just plain old hand soap and your doctor prescribes antibiotics that you don’t fully use and decide to flush instead of throwing in the garbage.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
The active/dead viruses in the vaccines are not the problem – it’s the additives, such as preservatives, that are in question.
Handwashing – just busy work to give to the public. We can’t possibly kill all of the nasty buggies that we encounter every day by constant handwashing – and what a nightmare if we did start randonly wiping out bacteria. We depend upon “friendly” bacteria for survival.
Antibiotics and other prescription drugs and environmental synthetic chemicals (etc etc etc) chip away at the human immune system, so one could actually conclude that anti-bacterial soap could leave us more vulnerable to viruses and bacteria.
Has anyone here had the pig flu yet? There is a rumor that our son’s girlfriend had it this week, and since they were together and he says he has a cold…..hmm-mm….
September 24th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
MSPD:
Oops.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I’ve never gotten a flu shot before, but I’m being told by the boss lady that I must this year (2 month old now in the house). Will it hurt? Will it make me sick? Are they really injecting a microchip in me? I’m scared – not a big fan of being injected with anything.
October 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm
I at first wanted to get the shot but then I talked to my friend and she told me she was against it. My friend said that one shot that was tested for 2 years had recently killed someone, but this shot hasn’t even been tested for 6 months and it is already on the market. I have never fully trusted the government which led me to be suspicious about this shot. I think that this shot would harm more people than protect them. The regular flu kills more people yearly than the swine flu (H1N1). It is just a new disease which is causing mass hysteria. God will take me when my time comes. We shouldn’t spend our whole life in fear! The government is just brodcasting these diseases so they can make money!
October 4th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Here’s an article (that’s currently being peer reviewed but supposedly comes from a group of highly respected authors and has a large sample size (10+ million)) about how those receiving the seasonal flu vaccine are twice as likely to get swine flu: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/science/study-prompts-provinces-to-rethink-flu-p%3E%20lan/article1303330/
October 5th, 2009 at 6:00 am
We had a ton of visitors this weekend, and found out yesterday that one of them was diagnosed with the H1N1 less than 24 hours after leaving us. Awesome.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Bill, this is an awesome post. A couple of my friends went to this seminar a few weeks ago at the chiropractor clinic on the flu vaccination. Basically the seminar said DO NOT GET THE FLU SHOT, IT IS BAD. They brough back a ton of articles which says why to not get the flu shot… because it contains mercury, rat poisoning, etc. It even says something about how it can be related to autism in children and can affect the baby’s brain, etc. So now they are against the flu shot, not sure whether to get it or not. If we’re so concerned about what’s in the flu or the H1N1 shot, what about all the other shots that we and/or our children got from birth? What’s in them?
I’m not a big person on getting vaccinations or taking medication just because the doc says so or was told it’s recommended. When I was pregnant with my first child two years ago, I got the flu shot when I was 10 weeks. She’s fine and I didn’t get sick from it. I’ve never gotten sick from the flu shot before. This year, I’m debating on whether or not I should get it especially with this big uproar about how bad the vaccination is, etc. I’m still debating my decision.
My thing is — it’s your decision. According to the CDC, the flu shot is only recommended. Even the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and the World Health Organization say that it is only (highly) recommended, even for pregnant women. Whoever’s doc is making it mandatory is wrong.
October 5th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I work for the evil empire (aka a big health insurance company) and they come in to give us flu shots each year…which means it is ‘OK!’ to be away from your desk as long as you are going to the flu shot clinic it. Needless to say I get multiple shots every year because I just get back in line as soon as I receive the vaccination! I must say, I haven’t had the flu in the 10 years I’ve followed the flock down to the flu shot clinic!
October 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Can you please tell the evil empire to stop using doctors as marionettes?
October 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Ha. Ha. You don’t tell the evil empire anything…the evil empire tells YOU (at least as long as the evil empire continues depositing money into evil empire employees personal checking account every other Friday).
(for the record the company I work for is non-profit and supports health care reform…and my use of ‘evil empire’ is a joke, I actually love the company)
October 6th, 2009 at 8:43 am
According to WCCO, Minnesota has received its first doses of H1N1 vaccine: http://wcco.com/local/flu.vaccine.minnesota.2.1229489.html
October 6th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
I have been racking my brain trying to decide. I have a 1 1/2 year old and a germie kindergartner. They are not expendable. At first I said no way. Now I am researching. I am pretty sure now that I will vaccinate my children for H1N1. http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/body/fact_myth_immunizations.html# http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/30/h1n1.vaccine.decision/ http://baby411.typepad.com/baby_411_blog/2009/09/swine-flu-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know.html
October 8th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Um, folks….the 2009 H1N1 vaccine is NOT new – just the strain in it is new. Influenza vaccines have been produced for YEARS..and each year utilizes different strains based on predicted models of what will be circulating. Had 2009 H1N1 emerged late last year, before the seasonal vaccines were being produced, it would simply be PART of the seasonal vaccine. So if your ‘I’m not gonna take it’ theory is based on it the vaccine itself being ‘new’ and/or ‘not adequately tested’, you need to reconsider.
Other myths include “use of adjuvants” – not in the U.S. – not allowed so don’t worry about that.
“The flu shot can make you sick” – no, the shot cannot. It’s not a live virus. If that worries you, then don’t take the mist, but only the shot.
October 8th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
“Had 2009 H1N1 emerged late last year, before the seasonal vaccines were being produced, it would simply be PART of the seasonal vaccine.”
What’s your source?
October 15th, 2009 at 9:35 am
WCCO has an interesting piece entitled Answerings Parents’ Questions about H1N1:
You can’t get it twice but that doesn’t mean that the drug companies don’t want you paying for it twice:
Interesting.
October 15th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I think the CDC has a pretty good website about H1N1 and the realities. Certainly pregnant women fall into the group of people that are at risk for any flu bug, let alone H1N1. The flu itself isn’t the problem, it’s the complications that can come from it if you are immune deficient, or your immune system takes action. The immune system of pregnant women is unique, and more susceptible to viral and bacterial infection.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no11/06-0152.htm
The design of inoculations, is not to inject you with some chemical that prevents the flu from impacting you. The inoculations are designed to stimulate your immune system giving it information it needs to identify the particular flu bug. That way if you get the flu, your immune system will recognize it immediately, and deal with it. Why we keep getting the flu, but don’t keep getting something like Chicken Pox, is that the flu changes the signature that our immune system uses to recognize it. So the next time around, our immune system doesn’t know what to do right away.
The sticking point on inoculations is the chemical compounds used in the inoculations. Some people feel that these chemicals are dangerous and can lead to illness.
If you can get over the fear of these chemicals then an inoculation isn’t a bad idea. It doesn’t weaken your immune system. It spurs the immune system into action so that when the real bug comes your body knows what to do and you don’t get as sick.
As far as anti-biotic use. The problem with soaps, and hand washes and such isn’t it hurts our immune systems. The problem is that it accelerates the process of natural selection for the bacteria and viruses. The more bacteria and viruses you kill, the faster they learn to survive. Leaving only the strongest bugs to reproduce. Eventually increasing the measures you need to take to fend them off. Hospitals are the worst place to get an infection in, simply because the bugs hanging around those clean places are particularly nasty.
Personally I don’t get the shots. I’ve found, at least in my life, I am usually better off if I just deal with whatever comes. If I get sick, I’ll get sick and then I’ll recover. If I were to get a shot.. it would be the one shot manufactured on Monday.. no doubt about it.